Is this bicycle manufacturer a jerk?

Sac Arrow

Sac Arrow

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
21,566
Location
Charlotte, NC
Display Name
Snorting his way across the USA
So I decided that my vintage Schwinn Traveler road bike was, well, dated and heavy plus I never ride it as I’m mostly a mountain biker but I decided to replace it with a new road bike, the make and model of which I chose based on research, word of mouth and test rides.

It’s not a Huffy, rather a mid range ($2,000+) full carbon fiber semi race bike. Which, came with an owner’s manual. Not that bicycles are terribly complex, but here is what I would expect to find covered in an owner’s manual for a bicycle of that level, based on previous bike ownership experience:

-Operations procedures for integrated brake and indexing shifter assemblies
-Rider ergonomic adjustment procedures (there is hex adjustment nut on the stem placarded with a plus and minus, the functionality of which eludes me)
-Maintenance and lubrication schedule
-Tire/tube requirements
-Specifications
-Replacement part numbers/specifications (e.g. brake pads, spokes, cabling, chain, rear cassette, bottom bracket, sealed bearings, etc…)
-Adjustment procedures for brakes, front and rear derailleurs
-Special cautions for carbon frames, and inspection procedures

//begin rant

Of the list, the owner’s manual contains…. Not one single item. Not even one. It was a generic manual that the manufacturer provides for ALL of the bicycles it manufactures. Had some general riding and safety cautions. There was nothing specific to my model, or even my series.

WHY waste the paper to print such a useless manual….

//end rant
 
In my experience as an owner and bicycle mechanic for my wife's Ironman efforts (she has completed 6 Ironman distance races, 2 in Hawaii), I've found a lot of bike shops to be pretty closed mouthed when it comes to giving out help and advice on stuff. They are protecting their service department. Many, if not most owners know less than nothing about their bikes, and that's just fine with the shops. When the local shop refused to answer a simple adjustment question I had when indexed shifting first came out, and on a system I had purchased through them, instead insisting I have them do the adjustment, I replied I would figure it out and have the knowledge that would benefit me at the races. They were not going to be at the races when I needed the support the most anyway.
Anyway, they got all huffy and arrogant about me not knowing what I was doing. It's a bike. Not a Porsche, which I serviced for a living for a few years. It ain't that complicated.
I'm sure there are many, many forums just like this one that have all the info you would ever need.
Perhaps the manufacturer is trying to help out their distribution network in much the same way.
 
Yup. It's that whole dipstick consumer mentality. "You can't possible understand what to do, just take it to the dealer so their $10 an hour guy can do it for you. Poorly. Oh, and bring a credit card."

As you observed, this isn't rocket surgery. It's also not a certified (or is it certificated?) airframe, so you can tweak and torque and experiment to your heart's content. If the book doesn't tell you and the dealer won't, figure it out yourself or look for an on line forum.
 
I'm an investor in a bicycle manufacturer called enve. With few exceptions, anyone who answers the phone was at some point a bike mechanic. If anyone here ever calls enve about our product and feels someone is holding back knowledge, I will personally get involved to make sure it never happens again. We don't all suck.
 
Wingsofglass said:
I'm an investor in a bicycle manufacturer called enve. With few exceptions, anyone who answers the phone was at some point a bike mechanic. If anyone here ever calls enve about our product and feels someone is holding back knowledge, I will personally get involved to make sure it never happens again. We don't all suck.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear it. Maybe I buy such a bike some day!
 
I bought a Cannondale about three years ago. Supposedly made in the USA, but I'm not sure exactly what on it was made in the USA. Probably not much of it. Anyway it squeaks and rattles like a WalMart Huffy. I took it to the shop and they "lubed" it. It cost me $34 and they had it over a week. Three weeks later it still sounds like a Huffy. I bought a tool kit from Bike Nashbar for $39. I'm and A&P mechanic. Next rainy day I'm going to become a bicycle mechanic..
 
Last edited:
I've become the unofficial bike mechanic on my street for the neighborhood kids. Some parents have brought theirs by, too.
 
DaleB said:
Yup. It's that whole dipstick consumer mentality. "You can't possible understand what to do, just take it to the dealer so their $10 an hour guy can do it for you. Poorly. Oh, and bring a credit card."

As you observed, this isn't rocket surgery. It's also not a certified (or is it certificated?) airframe, so you can tweak and torque and experiment to your heart's content. If the book doesn't tell you and the dealer won't, figure it out yourself or look for an on line forum.
Click to expand...

It goes both ways.
 
Bike manuals have always been pretty generic, as far a I can remember.

I'm dealing with getting a recalled carbon fiber fork replaced on a very ordinary Specialized brand bike - not a race-worthy machine by any means. It hasn't been what you'd describe as a great experience.

I wouldn't send my spouse off on any carbon fiber bike. I wouldn't send my kids off on one, either. But I'm an old timer and I remember when good bikes were made in the U.S. England and Italy out of steel. Good bikes were made out of Reynolds 531 double-butted tubing and they had stickers on the seat tube to prove it.

Now bike frames are made in Guangzhu. They are no doubt skilled artisans, weaving carbon fiber and applying epoxy just like the skilled people in the Chicago Schwinn and Raleigh Nottingham factories brazed lugs together in the 1960s and 1970s...
 
I think, if you spend $2,000 on a bike that you deserve a fully detailed and indexed manual. This is pure laziness on the part of the as yet unnamed manufacturer. On the other hand, this could be a great business opportunity to offer 3rd party handbooks to high end bike owners.
 
John221us said:
I think, if you spend $2,000 on a bike that you deserve a fully detailed and indexed manual. This is pure laziness on the part of the as yet unnamed manufacturer. On the other hand, this could be a great business opportunity to offer 3rd party handbooks to high end bike owners.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, or fortunately, as you look at it, all the info the OP wants is readily available on the web.

Except for the how to inspect a carbon fiber frame for damage part. That's a total crap shoot - one ding on a race bike frame can be catastrophic.

On an old Bianchi, you crash and see a dimpled stay or frame tube. On a new carbon fiber bike, you don't know until there's a spectacular failure.

http://www.bustedcarbon.com/
 
When I rode (at first forced by my Ironman obsessed spouse) I was amazed at the obsession to spend vast $$ to save a few grams of bike weight, or to have the "latest and greatest" components.
I had a pair of $40 Bike Nashbar clipless pedals that were labeled "sport/recreation" because if you flipped them over with your foot they had flat bottoms with a rough surface so you could ride them without cleats. OMG! I was ridiculed by all the purist riders who went on those 50 mile sprints in 100° heat with the "let 'em die if they can't keep up" attitude. Funny thing was my pedals weighed 40grams less than the $200 Shimanos. 40grams!
People would spend hundreds of dollars to save the weight of a good pre-ride trip to the porta potty.
 
Wingsofglass said:
I'm an investor in a bicycle manufacturer called enve. With few exceptions, anyone who answers the phone was at some point a bike mechanic. If anyone here ever calls enve about our product and feels someone is holding back knowledge, I will personally get involved to make sure it never happens again. We don't all suck.
Click to expand...

I'm not calling the manufacturer out on support issues (I'd go through the shop anyway on a warranty call) but that's good to know. I think smaller outfits have more of a vested interest in keeping people happy.

BurtM said:
Bike manuals have always been pretty generic, as far a I can remember.

I'm dealing with getting a recalled carbon fiber fork replaced on a very ordinary Specialized brand bike - not a race-worthy machine by any means. It hasn't been what you'd describe as a great experience.

I wouldn't send my spouse off on any carbon fiber bike. I wouldn't send my kids off on one, either. But I'm an old timer and I remember when good bikes were made in the U.S. England and Italy out of steel. Good bikes were made out of Reynolds 531 double-butted tubing and they had stickers on the seat tube to prove it.

Now bike frames are made in Guangzhu. They are no doubt skilled artisans, weaving carbon fiber and applying epoxy just like the skilled people in the Chicago Schwinn and Raleigh Nottingham factories brazed lugs together in the 1960s and 1970s...
Click to expand...

And Taiwan. But to be fair, I had some reservations about going with a carbon frame, but CF technology is much, much better today than it was ten years, five years or even two years ago. Steel frames are bulletproof, but heavy. Aluminum is light and stiff, but it has issues of its own, especially on thin walled tubing and stem sections that are prone to stress cracking. To the extent you don't damage a carbon frame by impact, or that there isn't a manufacturing defect, they don't have a limited life like aluminum frames can.

John221us said:
I think, if you spend $2,000 on a bike that you deserve a fully detailed and indexed manual. This is pure laziness on the part of the as yet unnamed manufacturer. On the other hand, this could be a great business opportunity to offer 3rd party handbooks to high end bike owners.
Click to expand...

I didn't want to get in to names, but let's just say they should properly be named "Generalized."

BurtM said:
Unfortunately, or fortunately, as you look at it, all the info the OP wants is readily available on the web.

Except for the how to inspect a carbon fiber frame for damage part. That's a total crap shoot - one ding on a race bike frame can be catastrophic.

On an old Bianchi, you crash and see a dimpled stay or frame tube. On a new carbon fiber bike, you don't know until there's a spectacular failure.

http://www.bustedcarbon.com/
Click to expand...

That's disturbing. I would not however, buy a carbon bike that is more than a couple years old, from a technology standpoint. But the point on the manual is, why waste paper on a 30 page bound booklet containing mostly useless, irrelevant information. Give me a large, folded paper sheet with useful information if you're going to give me anything. I have no problem going to the web for information, I do it all the time. Heck, I lost the instructions for my over ten year old Cateye computer, but the Cateye website had all the old archived manuals available in PDF form.

Keith Lane said:
When I rode (at first forced by my Ironman obsessed spouse) I was amazed at the obsession to spend vast $$ to save a few grams of bike weight, or to have the "latest and greatest" components.
I had a pair of $40 Bike Nashbar clipless pedals that were labeled "sport/recreation" because if you flipped them over with your foot they had flat bottoms with a rough surface so you could ride them without cleats. OMG! I was ridiculed by all the purist riders who went on those 50 mile sprints in 100° heat with the "let 'em die if they can't keep up" attitude. Funny thing was my pedals weighed 40grams less than the $200 Shimanos. 40grams!
People would spend hundreds of dollars to save the weight of a good pre-ride trip to the porta potty.
Click to expand...

There is a break point. Lighter and more expensive than I have isn't going to gain me anything because I don't race competively. Also, the price you pay for lighter frames and equipment is decreased durability.
 
I'm trying to remember if I got a manual with my last bike. I think the packed I got ffom the shop had a generic manual filled mainly with warranty info. The good stuff was all the paperwork from the components manufacturers that had all the details on repairs, adjustments, whatever was necessary. It doesn't seem like there is much the bike manufacturer really makes, other than the frame. The rest is from the component maker.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top