Is the ADS-B Out mandate enforceable?

[NoHeat]

In another thread, amekler reported installing ADS-B Out, and afterwards being unsure if it was functioning. He asked ATC if they could see it, but ATC replied that they can only determine whether a transponder is received.
See posts 35-40 here:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59070&page=2

It turned out that the installation was not functioning, and the poster could only determine this by using a handheld ADS-B In receiver, and doing this test himself. The avionics shop apparently was, like ATC, unequipped to detect whether the installation worked.

This brings up some questions:

1. Will ATC be equipped in the future to be able to detect an "ADS-B-out airspace bust"? If so, which kinds of ATC?

2. Will there be any other way to routinely detect ADS-B scofflaws, or installations that are malfunctioning?

3. Will we see a future of tens of thousands of planes flying frequently in controlled airspace, without the required ADS-B out, and nothing to stop it?

4. Aside from losing its safety-enhancing value, is there any downside to simply ignoring the mandate?

 

[John221us]

They have pretty good radar coverage in our area (NorCal) and they will see the blip. I imagine it is enforced in the same manner Mode C requirements are. They could follow you on radar to an airfield and have someone meet you there with a phone number to call.

 

[John Collins]

By 2020, all the ATC controllers will have access to ADS-B and be able to use it in addition to radar. Only a few areas have this capability now. ADS-B self identifies the aircraft and its capabilities. Until 2020, those that are not compliant are not affected. If they have a compliant version of ADS-B installed, but the installation is incorrect, many of the errors can be detected by ATC computers. I would expect that many will get letters from the FAA to have their equipment checked. This already happens in some cases.

Starting in 2020, I expect that controllers will have this information as well. If the error is willful, I would also expect that there will be consequences. An example of a willful error would be to deliberately enter the wrong aircraft ID.

 

[SkyVoyager]

It turned out that the installation was not functioning, and the poster could only determine this by using a handheld ADS-B In receiver, and doing this test himself. The avionics shop apparently was, like ATC, unequipped to detect whether the installation worked.

I saw in another post that Foreflight is able to filter out your local aircraft. I've wondered about that...How does it know that your aircraft isn't another one right on top of you? Or...Is it possible that Foreflight doesn't include "blips" of aircraft that have zero airspeed. Again...don't know...

 

[Jim Logajan]

I saw in another post that Foreflight is able to filter out your local aircraft. I've wondered about that...How does it know that your aircraft isn't another one right on top of you? Or...Is it possible that Foreflight doesn't include "blips" of aircraft that have zero airspeed. Again...don't know...

For aircraft with ADS-B OUT, the transmitter has to be configured so the unique 24 bit Mode S code assigned to the aircraft is included in the transmitted data block. The N number (or whatever country code is appropriate) also needs to be configured and included. So the local receiver should have the same number configured so the software knows which report is of itself and can be ignored.

For aircraft with only ADS-B IN, obviously some heuristics need to be used to determine which aircraft to ignore. Generally I would expect the software to at least have location information of the receiver/aircraft via GPS - otherwise I can't think of any way to determine which aircraft report belongs to "self".

One can find the Mode S assigned to any N-numbered aircraft via the FAA database:

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnum_inquiry.aspx

Many web sites on the subject of ADS-B technicalities; one such:

http://www.radartutorial.eu/13.ssr/sr25.en.html

 

[poadeleted20]

1. Will ATC be equipped in the future to be able to detect an "ADS-B-out airspace bust"?

Yes.

If so, which kinds of ATC?

All of them where ADS-B-out will be required. There are no immediate plans to eliminate primary radar.

2. Will there be any other way to routinely detect ADS-B scofflaws, or installations that are malfunctioning?

Unknown.

3. Will we see a future of tens of thousands of planes flying frequently in controlled airspace, without the required ADS-B out, and nothing to stop it?

I think that is most unlikely.

4. Aside from losing its safety-enhancing value, is there any downside to simply ignoring the mandate?

Yes -- losing your pilot certificate, and if that doesn't stop you, losing your money, and if that doesn't stop you, losing your freedom.

 

[amekler]

It turns out that my ads-b out
was working. In fore flight there is something that locks you out from seeing yourself. With John Collins help I drove a 1/2 mile away with the srtatus in my car and the plane on the ramp with transponder and 430w on and was able to see my airplane. I also discovered the reason I wasn't seeing traffic from the towers was the setting on the 330ES was set to out but the in was set to no on UAT and 1090.

Alan

 

[NoHeat]

.
Yes -- losing your pilot certificate, and if that doesn't stop you, losing your money, and if that doesn't stop you, losing your freedom.

It is such a pleasure to get a reply with such a cheerful, humor-filled spin.

 

[poadeleted20]

It is such a pleasure to get a reply with such a cheerful, humor-filled spin.

Sorry. You asked the question, and I gave you a factual response. Like we learned in the Air Force, "If you can't stand the answer, don't ask the question." :wink2:

 

[greghughes]

It turns out that my ads-b out
was working. In fore flight there is something that locks you out from seeing yourself. With John Collins help I drove a 1/2 mile away with the srtatus in my car and the plane on the ramp with transponder and 430w on and was able to see my airplane. I also discovered the reason I wasn't seeing traffic from the towers was the setting on the 330ES was set to out but the in was set to no on UAT and 1090.

You beat me to it - "Own Ship" may not be displayed (hidden by software so you don't have a traffic conflict with yourself). And good catch on the 330 settings.

 

[ZeroPapaGolf]

It is such a pleasure to get a reply with such a cheerful, humor-filled spin.

I thought it was a pretty dang good answer. These forums are sadly crawling with people itching to ignore or evade every reg possible. If they gave half the effort to simply complying that they do to dreaming up schemes to avoid compliance, it would be much easier overall.