Is my training going TOO fast?

[TheCowGod]

Hey guys. I'm a student pilot, and based on my instructor's comments it sounds like I've been making pretty fast progress. I soloed at 9.1 hours, and now with 15 hours in my logbook, I've done dual cross-country, some intro to hood work, flew into a class B airport, night flight with unusual attitudes, and on Monday if the weather allows I'll be doing a dual night cross country. I'm loving the way I keep getting to discover new aspects of flight, but I definitely wouldn't say I've *mastered* any of the things we've covered. I assume that soon my training will transition from this "introducing me to new concepts" phase into something more routine where I just practice and practice and practice everything. After all, I've still got at least 25 hours to fill before I even reach the 40-hour minimum, and of course I don't expect to be ready for my checkride as soon as I hit 40 hours.

I'd be all too happy to take credit for my fast progress (I've been in love with aviation since I was a little kid, and I've been messing around with flight simulators and reading aviation magazines for the last 15 years or so, so I could see how that could help), but I suspect that a big part of it is that my instructor is choosing to give me brief exposure to each concept before coming back and reviewing them in more detail. Is that how flight training usually works? Or is it more common to focus on one thing repeatedly before moving on to the next concept?

 

[ScottM]

You nmay be moving "fast" now but that is not the point. AT sometime you will be at the level to be a PP-ASEL, it is then that you will take your checkride. At some point we all catch up with each other. I imagine that oyu will be doing a lot of practice things soon just to build hours. As long as your CFI is not reintroducing things every flight I think you are probably ok.

 

[poadeleted20]

...I suspect that a big part of it is that my instructor is choosing to give me brief exposure to each concept before coming back and reviewing them in more detail. Is that how flight training usually works?

Not usually.

Or is it more common to focus on one thing repeatedly before moving on to the next concept?

Yes -- most instructors expect the trainee to reach some level of profiency (but not necessarily mastery) of each stage before moving to the next. That said...

Without having flown with you, I have no way of telling if you're one of those unusually adept students who picks things up faster than most. The fact that you soloed in 9 hours is quite unusual these days, given the much longer laundry list of tasks which must be learned prior to solo than back 40 years ago when I was learning when as soon as you could take off, get around the pattern, and land, you were sent solo. Today, the FAA says you must have training in 15 specific areas before solo, many of which were glossed over before the FAA delineated them about 25-30 years ago. Assuming that in only 9 hours you did all those things well enough to satisfy your instructor, you have a much better aptitude than most, and a faster-paced training schedule would be in order.

OTOH, if your instructor is just rushing you through things, and you don't feel comfortable with your level of learning on each item before you jump into the next, you could suffer later on when you try to put it all together well enough for the practical test.

What to do? I'd suggest a sit-down with your instructor to discuss your apparant concerns. Part of an instructor's job is to ensure that the trainee is comfortable with the pace of training, and is learning all the material to the necessary level before moving to the next syllabus item. If you're not comfortable, then it's your instructor's responsibility to address that lack of comfort, but s/he can't do that unless you make your concern known. If you provide your instructor with a bit of feedback, it will make the whole training process happier for all concerned.

 

[TheCowGod]

Yeah, I think it's probably a combination of both. We did slow flight once, I've done two power-off stalls and one power-on stall total, we spent one hour doing the various ground-reference maneuvers, etc. Maybe he felt that once was enough and after those one or two times each I showed that I could handle them -- I do feel like I was able to recover from the stalls pretty quickly, etc -- but I also don't feel that I have the precision required to meet the PTS standards I've been reading. I'll have a talk with him and maybe ask to slow things down a bit. I've got plenty of time left to do some reviewing of each concept. Thanks.

 

[gprellwitz]

Well, at this point in your training you aren't expected to have the precision to meet PTS standards. OTOH, having done only three stalls total, I would personally feel uncomfortable saying that you've mastered them well enough to be signed off to solo. Note that I'm not saying you haven't, just that, since you haven't shown that it's really repeatable, it's hard to evaluate. We all have good and bad days, so consistency can be important.

Go with Ron's advice and discuss your concerns with your instructor. S/he's the one who really has a way to judge your progress. And I wish you continued success!

 

[bbchien]

CowGod...there are three levels of performance in the PVT-ASEL training.

(1) I've shown it to you (you understand the goals) and you can do it.
(2) You can do it to PTS standards
(3) You can do it every time to PTS standards.

My checksheet has three columns for each of these. YMMV! By the end of training I will know that you have done shortfield landings 19 times and nailed the last 14, Crosswind landngs (more than 50% rated crosswind component) XY times, and nailed the last 7, etc.....

You get signed off when you have (3). That's how I know you'll pass.....! I'll be sitting on my hands while you demonstrate, not my left hand on my left thigh in a position to save our collective bacon when the "outcome of the manuever is in doubt". That's when I sign the 8710.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Hey guys. I'm a student pilot, and based on my instructor's comments it sounds like I've been making pretty fast progress. I soloed at 9.1 hours, and now with 15 hours in my logbook, I've done dual cross-country, some intro to hood work, flew into a class B airport, night flight with unusual attitudes, and on Monday if the weather allows I'll be doing a dual night cross country. I'm loving the way I keep getting to discover new aspects of flight, but I definitely wouldn't say I've *mastered* any of the things we've covered. I assume that soon my training will transition from this "introducing me to new concepts" phase into something more routine where I just practice and practice and practice everything. After all, I've still got at least 25 hours to fill before I even reach the 40-hour minimum, and of course I don't expect to be ready for my checkride as soon as I hit 40 hours.

I'd be all too happy to take credit for my fast progress (I've been in love with aviation since I was a little kid, and I've been messing around with flight simulators and reading aviation magazines for the last 15 years or so, so I could see how that could help), but I suspect that a big part of it is that my instructor is choosing to give me brief exposure to each concept before coming back and reviewing them in more detail. Is that how flight training usually works? Or is it more common to focus on one thing repeatedly before moving on to the next concept?

You've been studying flight and simulating it at a recreational pace all your life, and you had to have learned a fair amount. That, combined with higher than average motivation on your part, combined with already demonstrated flight skills, puts you into at least the borders of the accelerated training realm. All that put together, means it's probably too redundant to pay a CFI to go over in detail what you probably know already IOW, the method of flight instruction you're in now sounds appropriate for you and your history and your present skills and knowledge.

Taking a few trial FAA written ground tests and logging a quick ground and flying phase check with another CFI now would be a great way to cross check your level of proficiency while at the same time continuing and expanding your flight training.

Not a lot of them but, I've trained and seen some flight students finish satisfactorily in the minimum required hours by the FAA for many of the different ratings including PPL and it sounds like you may be one of them. Continued success.

 

[bbchien]

C.G. PS! I had an instrument student who had checkmarks in all three columns at 35 hours. I said, "what do you want to do for the next five hours?" He said, "Lunch at Commander's Palace!". That was just gawdawful in a C150 from Illinois......

 

[TheCowGod]

Taking a few trial FAA written ground tests and logging a quick ground and flying phase check with another CFI now would be a great way to cross check your level of proficiency while at the same time continuing and expanding your flight training.

That's a good idea, maybe I'll try that. My school doesn't appear to do these 'phase checks' I've seen mentioned in the Jeppessen books I've got, but it would be good to at least go up with another CFI and see what he thinks of my progress. I'm taking a roadtrip out to Knoxville and Raleigh next month -- maybe I'll do it there, just to avoid the chance of any hurt feelings at my home FBO.

Not a lot of them but, I've trained and seen some flight students finish satisfactorily in the minimum required hours by the FAA for many of the different ratings including PPL and it sounds like you may be one of them. Continued success.

That'd certainly be nice

C.G. PS! I had an instrument student who had checkmarks in all three columns at 35 hours. I said, "what do you want to do for the next five hours?" He said, "Lunch at Commander's Palace!". That was just gawdawful in a C150 from Illinois......

Hehe, I don't know where Commander's Palace is, but I take it it's far away from Illinois That's true, I suppose if I do manage to end up ready for my checkride with time to spare, I can always go do some more cross-countries, maybe check out some of those places listed on adventurepilot.com. I won't count on finding myself in that situation though.

 

[jesse]

Yeah, I think it's probably a combination of both. We did slow flight once, I've done two power-off stalls and one power-on stall total

Are you completely comfortable with power off and power on stalls? Comfortable to the point that you can have a conversation while doing it without any fear or uneasyness?

Are you comfortable doing both solo? With a total of three stalls with one being power off..I kind of doubt it.

If not, please focus on them. A fear of stalls will result in sloppy flying habits including being too fast on landing, poor crosswind landings, and an increased risk of bent metal or spilt blood.

Make sure you understand everything now as it's much harder to unlearn further down the road. You're probably fine, but it's worth mentioning.

You sound like you are taking your training very seriously. Maintaining this attitude towards safety and what you are taught is a very good thing. There aren't many pilots out there that have such an interest in their training. I have a feeling you are doing great and your instructor is teaching you at the pace you learn.

In my opinion, a pilot that has an honest interest in flying, and constantly evaluates their techniques and procedures is a step ahead of everyone else. An open mind like yours combined with discussion boards like these will make you a superior pilot.

 

[gprellwitz]

That's a good idea, maybe I'll try that. My school doesn't appear to do these 'phase checks' I've seen mentioned in the Jeppessen books I've got, but it would be good to at least go up with another CFI and see what he thinks of my progress. I'm taking a roadtrip out to Knoxville and Raleigh next month -- maybe I'll do it there, just to avoid the chance of any hurt feelings at my home FBO.

Any good instructor should welcome the opportunity to have their students evaluated by their peers. You shouldn't need to hide that.

Hehe, I don't know where Commander's Palace is, but I take it it's far away from Illinois That's true, I suppose if I do manage to end up ready for my checkride with time to spare, I can always go do some more cross-countries, maybe check out some of those places listed on adventurepilot.com. I won't count on finding myself in that situation though.

Commander's Palace is a famous restaurant down in New Orleans. And a couple of true honest-to-gosh LONG cross-countries where you're really dealing with weather and decision making would be valuable learning tools. Heck, you could even use them for the start of the commercial rating!

 

[poadeleted20]

We did slow flight once, I've done two power-off stalls and one power-on stall total, we spent one hour doing the various ground-reference maneuvers, etc. Maybe he felt that once was enough and after those one or two times each I showed that I could handle them -- I do feel like I was able to recover from the stalls pretty quickly, etc -- but I also don't feel that I have the precision required to meet the PTS standards I've been reading.

While I agree that one need not be able to do everything to PTS standards at this point, it's hard to believe that an instructor could legitimately sign off a trainee for solo if that trainee has done slow flight once and only made three stalls/recoveries. It's an issue of repeatability on really critical skills -- I need to see everything done at least twice safely (without coaching during the maneuver) to have enough assurance that nothing bad will happen.

 

[gibbons]

One of the reasons I require students to demonstrate the same maneuver on different flights is because they generally can't completely carry the lesson from one flight to another. Most maneuvers require repetition to get them consistently correct. So even if you did, for example, power off stalls perfectly on the first attempt, we'd still do them many more times in subsequent lessons.

As for flying with a different instructor... I'd hope your instructor would encourage it and help line someone up for you to fly with. We had a student at the school recently who scheduled a one hour lesson with each instructor prior to his check ride. He told me his instructor kept telling him he was ready for the check ride but he didn't feel ready, so he wanted to get some other opinions. On my ride with him we did slow flight and stalls. He did great on each flight and each instructor told him so. Then he was ready to take the exam. His instructor didn't mind in the least. As instructors, we're here for our students - not the other way around. Your instructor should be willing to work with you to make sure you're comfortable with your progress. Don't sell him/her short.

 

[TheCowGod]

Are you completely comfortable with power off and power on stalls? Comfortable to the point that you can have a conversation while doing it without any fear or uneasyness?

Are you comfortable doing both solo? With a total of three stalls with one being power off..I kind of doubt it.

No, I wouldn't say I'm comfortable with them to that level. Crosswind landings is something else I feel that I need more practice with -- since the wind at HDC, my home airport, seems to almost always come out of 130, and we've got a runway 13, you have to purposely pick the other runway, 18, to get any significant crosswind component, and we've only done that once. I've already told him that I want to spend some time with him working on crosswind landings sometime soon.

If not, please focus on them. A fear of stalls will result in sloppy flying habits including being too fast on landing, poor crosswind landings, and an increased risk of bent metal or spilt blood.

That is true. When I fly solo, if I find my airspeed on final dropping 5 or 10 knots below the speed I'm aiming for, I start to get nervous about being close to stalling. So that's definitely something else I want to spend more time practicing.

Make sure you understand everything now as it's much harder to unlearn further down the road. You're probably fine, but it's worth mentioning.

Yeah, I appreciate the input. I think that, head-knowledge-wise, I'm doing pretty good, because that's the part that I've had 10 or 15 years to get comfortable with. I scored 100% on my pre-solo written test, and I fare pretty well on the Sportys.com study buddy too. But you're right, it's the stick-and-rudder work that I really don't feel comfortable enough with, so I guess the solution to that is just to ask my instructor to spend some more time reviewing it with me.

And I guess that was basically what prompted my initial question. It surprised me that I was signed off to solo having only done three stalls (all on one flight) and five or ten minutes of slow flight, and I was curious if it was normal to do it that way or not. It sounds like it might be a combination of some aptitude on my part, combined with perhaps some over-enthusiasm on my instructor's part.

You sound like you are taking your training very seriously. Maintaining this attitude towards safety and what you are taught is a very good thing. There aren't many pilots out there that have such an interest in their training. I have a feeling you are doing great and your instructor is teaching you at the pace you learn.

In my opinion, a pilot that has an honest interest in flying, and constantly evaluates their techniques and procedures is a step ahead of everyone else. An open mind like yours combined with discussion boards like these will make you a superior pilot.

Thanks for the kind words. Here's hoping you're right

As for flying with a different instructor... I'd hope your instructor would encourage it and help line someone up for you to fly with. We had a student at the school recently who scheduled a one hour lesson with each instructor prior to his check ride. He told me his instructor kept telling him he was ready for the check ride but he didn't feel ready, so he wanted to get some other opinions. On my ride with him we did slow flight and stalls. He did great on each flight and each instructor told him so. Then he was ready to take the exam. His instructor didn't mind in the least. As instructors, we're here for our students - not the other way around. Your instructor should be willing to work with you to make sure you're comfortable with your progress. Don't sell him/her short.

Yeah, I keep reminding myself that I'm the one paying $6,000 or so for this training, and it's going to be my life (and the lives of my friends and family) that depend on me becoming a safe, competent pilot. But it just feels like, if I ask to fly with a different CFI, it's kind of like I'm stating that I suspect my instructor may not be doing a good job. And everyone at my FBO is so nice and friendly, that I don't want to make them feel bad Sure, I can understand your reasoning that the instructor is there for my sake and so he should be happy to set me up with another CFI, but is that the reaction that you would realistically expect? I'm honestly asking -- maybe I'm making a false assumption about how my request would be interpreted.

 

[gibbons]

Sure, I can understand your reasoning that the instructor is there for my sake and so he should be happy to set me up with another CFI, but is that the reaction that you would realistically expect? I'm honestly asking -- maybe I'm making a false assumption about how my request would be interpreted.

I understand your concern. You'll need to decide when and if it's the right thing for you to do. Maybe I'll start making a stronger point with my students that they should feel free to (and I encourage them to) schedule some flights with other instructors.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Re: Is my training going TOO fast?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCowGod
Sure, I can understand your reasoning that the instructor is there for my sake and so he should be happy to set me up with another CFI, but is that the reaction that you would realistically expect? I'm honestly asking -- maybe I'm making a false assumption about how my request would be interpreted.

I understand your concern. You'll need to decide when and if it's the right thing for you to do. Maybe I'll start making a stronger point with my students that they should feel free to (and I encourage them to) schedule some flights with other instructors.

It's a common and well know phenomenon in flight training and other typically one-on-one types of education, that nervousness can occur in the trainee after longer periods of training with just one instructor when being tested by a new person. You'd be doing everybody a service by flying elsewhere occasionally and any CFI that had any problem with the concept has other more significant problems underlying that are best brought to light as well.

 

[TheCowGod]

That's a good point, thanks, Dave. That makes me feel better about asking him too.

 

[flyingcowboy69]

I think that you need to rember that your instructor only singed you off to solo under his /her supervision under weather conditions that they are there to observe. One of the reasons some instructers solo students early in training is to build their confidence and to help improve the learning curve.

 

[t0r0nad0]

Dan, it sounds like you and I are very similar in our training and are at similar points. I have had an obsession with aviation for only the past three or four years, but in that time I've read nearly every issue of AOPA Flight Training cover-to-cover, read countless books and seen many videos, logged about 150 hrs on VATSIM and 400+ in FS total, and I've taken the time to go through the lessons in FS and put up with Rod Machado's corny jokes. I've taken about 7 different discovery flights in various parts of the country, since I used to travel frequently for work I would take a flight to get exposure to a different area and to just get in the air for a while. I started taking lessons in earnest in '05, but ran out of money. So, when I started again with my current instructor/school, I had about 13 hrs in my logbook. I soloed at 23.4, so right around 10 hrs after I started flying in earnest again. I seem to be flying through all of these concepts (pardon the pun) at a fast pace as well... much faster than most students at my school, but I attribute that to the fact that like you, I've gathered much of the written knowledge prior to starting the actual flying.

So, with regards to your solo sign off so early, you may be incredibly adept at the maneuvers, but I would recommend getting some more practice on slow flight and stalls with your instructor before trying them solo. One thing that I've noticed with my instructor, and have had to remind him of a few times, is that even though I seem to know my stuff and am an advanced student, I am still a student who needs the help and guidance he has to offer. I think it's easy for CFI's (or anyone) to forget that even if someone is an advanced student, they don't have the same experience as other pilots. I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but hopefully you all will get what I mean.

Anyway, congrats on your training, welcome to this forum, I'm glad you're getting along as well here as you do with the people over at TAF. These are really great people here and they've made me feel right at home. Maybe we can meet up for lunch somewhere around eastern TX or western LA sometime on our solo x-c's?

 

[Greebo]

Did I read that right?

Solo at 9 hours with 1 power on and 2 power off stalls?

Good grief - I must have done DOZENS of stalls before I soloed - LONG after I was comfortable with them!

I am jumping in to reply without having read everything in full detail, but that jumped out at me, and it scares me a bit...

 

[KennyFlys]

Did I read that right?

Solo at 9 hours with 1 power on and 2 power off stalls?

Good grief - I must have done DOZENS of stalls before I soloed - LONG after I was comfortable with them!

I am jumping in to reply without having read everything in full detail, but that jumped out at me, and it scares me a bit...

I had similar thoughts while reading this. Given what I've observed in other training and some of the accident reports I've read... as a CFI, I plan to put a bit more emphasis on stalls and slow flight performance.

 

[TheCowGod]

One thing that I've noticed with my instructor, and have had to remind him of a few times, is that even though I seem to know my stuff and am an advanced student, I am still a student who needs the help and guidance he has to offer. I think it's easy for CFI's (or anyone) to forget that even if someone is an advanced student, they don't have the same experience as other pilots.

Yeah, I think that's exactly what's happening with my instructor too. I think that, since I tend to know how most of this stuff works in my head, he forgets that I still need to practice this stuff with my hands just as much as any beginner student.

Maybe we can meet up for lunch somewhere around eastern TX or western LA sometime on our solo x-c's?

Yeah, sounds like a great idea. I'll let you know when I get to that point.

Did I read that right?

Solo at 9 hours with 1 power on and 2 power off stalls?

Good grief - I must have done DOZENS of stalls before I soloed - LONG after I was comfortable with them!

I am jumping in to reply without having read everything in full detail, but that jumped out at me, and it scares me a bit...

No, I'd agree. I got the feeling that I was signed off as soon as I was ready to handle the plane under normal circumstances, but without much training on how to react when things don't go as planned. I've done a few more solo touch-and-gos since then, and they were uneventful, and my instructor hasn't had to jump in and help during the 9 hours of dual we've done since he signed me off for solo, so I think my basic aircraft control is fine, but I don't feel that I'd be able to react quickly enough if something were to go wrong. For that reason, I'd like to have some more practice dealing with issues like engine failures, etc before doing more solo flying. I've already arranged to devote our lesson this Wednesday to working on stalls, slow flight, and other maneuvers, and I'll have him work with me on emergency procedures during the next few lessons too.

I've read about instructors occasionally telling a student to cut power while the student is flying somewhere away from the vicinity of the airport, and having the student pick a field to land in, and actually set up for landing, before doing a go-around at the last minute. It seems like that would cause havoc for the people on the ground, but it sounds like great practice to me. My instructor occasionally asks me where I'd land if I were to lose the engine, but the only times he has actually had me cut power have been while I was in the traffic pattern, so there was always a nice big runway within easy reach. So that's something else I'll talk to him about doing.

 

[t0r0nad0]

Actually, what typically happens is that the instructor will distract you by looking out the left side of the plane, then they'll reach over and pull the power on you. What type of plane are you training in? I have a good pneumonic device for engine out emergencies in the older (carb heat-equipped) 172's if you're interested.

Let me know when you start your solo x-c flights... I should be starting mine this weekend.

 

[kevin47881]

Relating to simulated engine outs and emergency landing spots: I imagine if you fly several minutes from Covington you can find rural areas. This is a good area for you and your instructor to locate emergency landing areas and set up for landing. During my primary training we would fly about 15 minutes and then the "engine would quit". I'd have to set up for landing and about 500-1,000 agl go full power.

Congratulations on advancing as quickly as you are! Your attitude is a true breath of fresh air.

 

[TheCowGod]

Actually, what typically happens is that the instructor will distract you by looking out the left side of the plane, then they'll reach over and pull the power on you. What type of plane are you training in? I have a good pneumonic device for engine out emergencies in the older (carb heat-equipped) 172's if you're interested.

I'm training in a Piper Warrior. My instructor shared a useful mnemonic for engine-outs: F.A.R.T.S. (Fly the airplane, establish best-glide Airspeed, attempt Restart procedure, set Transponder, run through Shutdown checklist). He said it was made up by someone at my flight school, not a standard one used throughout aviation, but it should be easy enough to remember

Of course, the restart procedure itself is something I'd just have to try and remember from my study of the POH, and that's something else I'd want to at least practice going through the motions of.

Relating to simulated engine outs and emergency landing spots: I imagine if you fly several minutes from Covington you can find rural areas. This is a good area for you and your instructor to locate emergency landing areas and set up for landing. During my primary training we would fly about 15 minutes and then the "engine would quit". I'd have to set up for landing and about 500-1,000 agl go full power.

Yeah, there's nothing but fields and forest in most of the area within a few miles of the airport, so finding a landing spot that won't freak out people on the ground shouldn't be too hard. I feel like it'd be helpful to practice setting up for a landing on a highway or something, since it seems like often that's one of the only options available, but that is something that I can definitely imagine causing concern on the ground 500-1000' AGL is a lot higher than I had been imagining it though -- when I read about it, I pictured getting as low as 30-50' AGL before going around. I guess staying that high wouldn't scare anybody. Of course, I had forgotten about the '500 feet above any structure, vessel, or vehicle' rule, so we couldn't legally go lower than that anyway.

 

[t0r0nad0]

Mine is "Always Calm When Losing My Free-Falling M&M's"...

Airspeed = Best Glide
Carb Heat = On
Wind = Direction & Speed
Landing Site = Selected
Mixture = Full Rich
Fuel Selector = Both Tanks (or fullest tank in the Warrior)
Fuel Primer = In & Locked
Master = On
Mags = Both

 

[poadeleted20]

Mine is "Always Calm When Losing My Free-Falling M&M's"...

Airspeed = Best Glide
Carb Heat = On
Wind = Direction & Speed
Landing Site = Selected
Mixture = Full Rich
Fuel Selector = Both Tanks (or fullest tank in the Warrior)
Fuel Primer = In & Locked
Master = On
Mags = Both

Well, if you can remember that mnemonic, no less what it means, mighty fine. Personally, I teach "Glide-Grass-Gas." It may not be as comprehensive, but my trainees remember it easily.

 

[TheCowGod]

Hehe, that one's not bad either. It has a bit more detail. It came in handy today, since we focused on emergency procedures and soft- and short-field landings during my lesson. After a few simulated forced landings on a relatively small (2300 x 30') grass strip and a simulated forced landing approach on a field away from an airport (including picking the field and gliding to it), I feel a lot more comfortable with the idea of handling an engine failure in flight.

Something I forgot to ask my instructor is how to figure out the direction and speed of the wind. I didn't really take wind into conscious consideration during my approaches, and I realize that could be a significant factor. Do you just depend on the forecasted Winds Aloft you used in your nav calculations (if doing cross country) or the last ATIS/AWOS you listened to? I kind of wish I had that little string on the canopy like gliders do

 

[jesse]

Something I forgot to ask my instructor is how to figure out the direction and speed of the wind. I didn't really take wind into conscious consideration during my approaches, and I realize that could be a significant factor. Do you just depend on the forecasted Winds Aloft you used in your nav calculations (if doing cross country) or the last ATIS/AWOS you listened to? I kind of wish I had that little string on the canopy like gliders do

You aren't really concerned with the winds aloft. You want to know what the surface winds are. You need to land into the wind. The last thing you want to do is crash into a field downwind. The chance of survival is by far greater into the wind.

It's not a bad idea to keep winds aloft in mind during your glide if you are at altitude. Obviously if you have a 60 knot headwind you aren't going to want to glide towards a field into the wind. BUT you *MUST* land into the wind.

The best thing would be to writedown the METAR of the departing airport. Update it enroute. This way you remember the direction because you wrote it. Plus you can look at the paper.

It's possible you might be able to figure out the winds based on trees, grass, or something. But I wouldn't count on it.

As far as gliders. They're string is not for wind. It's for flying coordinated. It's the same as the little ball in the turn coordinator.

The more hours you get, the better you'll get at remembering details. I used to struggle with knowing the wind direction when the engine would quit. Now with more experience I just know. I remember which way the runway was that I took off on and I know the en route weather.

 

[TheCowGod]

The best thing would be to writedown the METAR of the departing airport. Update it enroute. This way you remember the direction because you wrote it. Plus you can look at the paper.

Thanks for the input. That's a good idea. I'm sure that'd be good information to have anyway. I'll start doing that on my flights.

As far as gliders. They're string is not for wind. It's for flying coordinated. It's the same as the little ball in the turn coordinator.

Ahh, that makes sense.

The more hours you get, the better you'll get at remembering details. I used to struggle with knowing the wind direction when the engine would quit. Now with more experience I just know. I remember which way the runway was that I took off on and I know the en route weather.

Yeah, I'm certainly hoping that ability improves Right now I'm still finding it a little overwhelming trying to remember (or write down) what clearance ATC just gave me, what frequency and squawk code they told me to switch to, which taxiways are closed on ATIS, etc, all while trying to fly the plane.

 

[gkainz]

Well, if you can remember that mnemonic, no less what it means, mighty fine. Personally, I teach "Glide-Grass-Gas." It may not be as comprehensive, but my trainees remember it easily.

I would never get that one right ... too similar to the old '70s "Gas, grass or ___.... nobody rides for free"
Disclaimer: I was a redneck South Dakota cowboy in the 70s. The only grass I messed with was cutting and bailing hay."

 

[t0r0nad0]

Well, it may not work for everyone, but it really helped me remember the complete checklist to the letter.

Dan, when looking for wind indicators, I look for smoke (from stacks or bbq's, or brush burns, etc.), flags on flagpoles, a car on a dirt road, which way trees are blowing, wheat fields, long grass, etc. If I can't find anything, I use the METAR winds.

Bottom line is, trim for best glide speed first!!! This buys you the most time to find a landing site and get down safely. Also, make sure you at least glance at your chart... a favorite trick of examiners/CFI's is to pull your power right after you pass a small airport (especially a grass strip) and then laugh at you when you decide to go for the farm field... even if you do everything else right .

 

[gprellwitz]

Well, it may not work for everyone, but it really helped me remember the complete checklist to the letter.

Dan, when looking for wind indicators, I look for smoke (from stacks or bbq's, or brush burns, etc.), flags on flagpoles, a car on a dirt road, which way trees are blowing, wheat fields, long grass, etc. If I can't find anything, I use the METAR winds.

Bottom line is, trim for best glide speed first!!! This buys you the most time to find a landing site and get down safely. Also, make sure you at least glance at your chart... a favorite trick of examiners/CFI's is to pull your power right after you pass a small airport (especially a grass strip) and then laugh at you when you decide to go for the farm field... even if you do everything else right .

Use the GPS Nearest button too! You want to train the way you'll fly.

 

[t0r0nad0]

Use the GPS Nearest button too! You want to train the way you'll fly.

That works too... provided that you have a GPS with a NRST button to push. (I fly C-172N models, only one of which has an "ancient" GPS)

 

[poadeleted20]

The only grass I messed with was cutting and bailing hay."

"...pickin' cotton, raisin' hell, and balin' hay." - Billy Joe Shavers, "Georgia on a Fast Train."

 

[TheCowGod]

Thanks, all good advice. Especially glancing at the sectional to see if there's any airports nearby -- grass fields seem to be hard to spot from the air, so checking the chart for them sounds like a good first step. And I think I'll plan to work in a quick circle as a standard part of my checklist if I have the altitude for it, because with the low-wing PA28 I'm training in, it's pretty hard to see what's beneath and behind you.

The PA28's at my school have Garmin 430's in them, but I'm trying to do as much of my training as possible without them, since I plan to move later this year, and I don't know if wherever I end up renting in the future will have GPS in their planes. But of course, I guess I should spend sometime getting comfortable with the features available as well, so that I can make use of it if a real emergency arises.

Well, tomorrow I'm doing my first solo cross-country, weather permitting, and hopefully I won't have to use any of this engine-out stuff I wonder if it's wise to do it on Friday the 13th...

 

[gprellwitz]

The PA28's at my school have Garmin 430's in them, but I'm trying to do as much of my training as possible without them, since I plan to move later this year, and I don't know if wherever I end up renting in the future will have GPS in their planes. But of course, I guess I should spend sometime getting comfortable with the features available as well, so that I can make use of it if a real emergency arises.

Well, tomorrow I'm doing my first solo cross-country, weather permitting, and hopefully I won't have to use any of this engine-out stuff I wonder if it's wise to do it on Friday the 13th...

If you rent in the future and the plane doesn't have a GPS, you may very well wind up buying a portable. It's a bit of a gray area. You should, IMHO, at least become comfortable with the idea of hitting nearest on a GPS. Much easier to go to push the button and find it isn't there than to be 200' AGL and realize that you forgot to use a resource you had available.

And have a good time on your XC tomorrow!

 

[bbchien]

...and master the VLOC/GPS button!

 

[kevin47881]

...and master the VLOC/GPS button!

I'll give an amen to that!

 

[t0r0nad0]

Dan, where are you headed on your x-c? Are you going to do another one this weekend? I have time booked tomorrow and Sunday for some solo x-c flights myself. PM me and let's talk about maybe meeting up somewhere in the middle.