Is my instructor right for me?

airdale said:
There are two very different things getting mixed up here. A tough, demanding instructor is one thing. A guy who is a jerk is completely separate issue.

Between getting my ratings and various check rides I have probably flown with 10-20 instructors, maybe more. I like tough, demanding instructors. I don't fly with jerks.

From the OP's description of his requests to the instructor to take the controls, I concluded that the instructor was a jerk. From the OP's subsequent post, maybe the correct conclusion is that, at that point in time, the instructor acted like a jerk. If the OP feels, as he says, that the guy is redeemable then that's fine.

But tough and demanding instructors don't have to be and IMO usually are not jerks.
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Best description right here.

Additionally, while I agree that minimum PTS is not where anyone wants to be, there is a phenomenon in learning called gradient. You can't turn the fire hose on and just leave it there all the time. While SOME students will perform well, not all will. We as a community need to change our mindset if we expect GA to survive the current down trends in student accession rates. This is not WWII where we need to wash out pilots so we can send them to the Grunts instead.
 
I was lucky, I didn't realize it then, but the more I look back the more I realize he was a genius. When I was learning it was spring time in New Mexico. After probably less than 10 bad landing tries on my part my instructor had me fly to the runway with a 20 knot crosswind, get into ground effect, and add just enough power to stay off the ground while I crabbed down the 7000 ft runway. I remember doing that 3-4 times then he had me land on upwind, runway. After that lesson he never had to assist me again on a landing.

The point is, if you have an instructor that isn't able to get through to you. Go to the next one. There IS an instructor who knows how to teach you in a timely matter
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I was lucky, I didn't realize it then, but the more I look back the more I realize he was a genius. When I was learning it was spring time in New Mexico. After probably less than 10 bad landing tries on my part my instructor had me fly to the runway with a 20 knot crosswind, get into ground effect, and add just enough power to stay off the ground while I crabbed down the 7000 ft runway. I remember doing that 3-4 times then he had me land on upwind, runway. After that lesson he never had to assist me again on a landing.

The point is, if you have an instructor that isn't able to get through to you. Go to the next one. There IS an instructor who knows how to teach you in a timely matter
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In our last lesson he actually did the same thing. He had me fly the runway low and slow and then had me use the rudders and ailerons so I could get the feel and sight picture. It did help. We are now scheduled for this Wednesday and Thursday to get back out there and try it again. Hopefully will be able to mail it Wednesday and Solo on Thursday or early next week.
 
As you have said that he is right guy for you so you have to give him another try and then decide to switch or not.:idea:
 
Do you and your instructor walk back from the airplane to the FBO, talking and feeling good after you are done with a lesson? You should. That is a good indicator.
 
I have had two lessons since this frustrating lesson. I have also had two additional conversations and not only have we worked past through everything, I have passed my hurdle with the landings. Although the winds were calm yesterday, I made 6 out of 7 landings unassisted and the one assisted was to pull nose up a little.

Today did 7 out of 7 with no assistance and was told if I had taken pre solo exam before this flight he would have gotten out. We have found a way to work together and I am making more progress now than ever. Oh, almost forgot, two of my landings were simulated emergencies where he pulled power in the pattern and said oops, now what. I hit the numbers the first time and was a little short the second and needed a touch of power but he said awesome job.

It's easy to get frustrated but as many of you have pointed out, I will be a much better pilot for it in the end. Whining stopped, fun started.
 
mulligan said:
I have had two lessons since this frustrating lesson. I have also had two additional conversations and not only have we worked past through everything, I have passed my hurdle with the landings. Although the winds were calm yesterday, I made 6 out of 7 landings unassisted and the one assisted was to pull nose up a little.

Today did 7 out of 7 with no assistance and was told if I had taken pre solo exam before this flight he would have gotten out. We have found a way to work together and I am making more progress now than ever. Oh, almost forgot, two of my landings were simulated emergencies where he pulled power in the pattern and said oops, now what. I hit the numbers the first time and was a little short the second and needed a touch of power but he said awesome job.

It's easy to get frustrated but as many of you have pointed out, I will be a much better pilot for it in the end. Whining stopped, fun started.
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Great job, you are on your way to losing the anchor in the right seat.
 
Yes, that's nice progress, but keep in mind that needing to add power on an engine out qualifies as "needing assistance." If it had been a real emergency, it would have been a crash; you can't be short on a dead stick landing. That's a lot easier to fix than control in the flare, though. 172s aren't great gliders, but they have no problem making the field from downwind, even if the pattern is stupid low (e.g. KHWD, 600 feet). Just don't put down the flaps until you have the field made. Or at all if you have a lot of runway to float down. And watch those headwinds.
 
In flight is the time to discuss flying. On the ground is the time to discuss learning styles, etc. Stow the ego.

Discussing landings after the fact won't work because you won't recall your landings the same way your instructor does. Flight instruction happens while you're flying. You instructor would be wasting your money by letting you fly 3 landings with the same mistake each time when he might have corrected the mistake after the first one if only you'd been willing to discuss it.

Suck it up and walk it off. Then go fly. :D
 
mulligan said:
I have had two lessons since this frustrating lesson. I have also had two additional conversations and not only have we worked past through everything, I have passed my hurdle with the landings. Although the winds were calm yesterday, I made 6 out of 7 landings unassisted and the one assisted was to pull nose up a little.

Today did 7 out of 7 with no assistance and was told if I had taken pre solo exam before this flight he would have gotten out. We have found a way to work together and I am making more progress now than ever. Oh, almost forgot, two of my landings were simulated emergencies where he pulled power in the pattern and said oops, now what. I hit the numbers the first time and was a little short the second and needed a touch of power but he said awesome job.

It's easy to get frustrated but as many of you have pointed out, I will be a much better pilot for it in the end. Whining stopped, fun started.
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Keep it up.....

We got faith in ya.....:yes:
 
mulligan said:
I made 6 out of 7 landings unassisted and the one assisted was to pull nose up a little.

Today did 7 out of 7 with no assistance
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Congrats, that was a tough milestone for me too that I just got over yesterday. We did 16 touch and goes. I was to the point where I needed to get the landings before moving on. 1st 2 were bad as usual and I got bailed out. 3rd one we did together (again). Something clicked on the 4th one and 4 through 16 were unassisted and were beautiful. I floated a little twice but pitched down then re-established and settled down nicely both times. The last 6 were in the dark and I nailed those also.

I was so excited. He said "that's 3 in a row". "that's 12 in a row". We have time for one more, make it a good one. "that's 13" I yelled "WHO'S A PILOT"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats again, It's a great feeling, isn't it?
 
2Airtime2 said:
I'm a little over 10 hrs and struggling with landings too. I am also a type A personality. I think most cfi's **** the student off sooner or later.

Lesson before last, we were doing touch and goes. I made a mediocre landing and was looking forward to the next pass (thought something clicked and I would nail the next one). Flew a perfect pattern, final was perfect, just about to roundout he yells "GO AROUND". Full throttle, level, climb, incrementally raise flaps. He said very good on the go around. I said why didn't you let me land? I was gunna nail that one. He said "maybe, but you forgot your gumps and you'll never get one by me".

I'm still ****ed about that. Let me frickin' get the most important part of flying down BEFORE you make me do everything by the book. You are here to keep me safe. If my gas is already on both, my unraiseable gear is down, mixture hasn't left full rich the whole flight, uncontrollable prop is still forward, and seatbelts haven't miraculously unbuckled themselves, then help me land this gd plane and we'll remember gumps every time somewhere between here and the check ride.

end of rant

I didn't forget a gumps the rest of the day or the next lesson.
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That was hilarious. My CFI never got ****y or rude. He was firm with me at times but he also was realistic about the GUMPS and never made me do unnecessary go around a unless we were just practicing them. He said I'm not doing this to try to get an extra buck out of you. And I got my license and passed everything the first try. Proving you can not be a dick and still get through to teaching someone who didn't know much about aviation to a year and a half and boom. But the rant was golden.



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muly keep up the good work , and keep those odds even ! best, bill
 
Now, don't anyone take me too seriously since I've only got a couple hours so far but my perspective is that both the instructor and student should make their expectations quite clear BEFORE getting in the airplane.

For example, an instructor might explain that for the student's benefit, he will not take the controls unless it becomes necessary. He might also explain that doing so serves the purpose of having the student learn to maintain control even in stressful situations. If the student disagrees, he should then voice his disagreement. This would reduce the need for any in-flight arguments that take away from the learning experience.

Flying is fun but learning to fly can be stressful. Best take measures not to make it any more stressful that it already is.
 
Good communication is always useful, but there should never be airborne arguments regardless. The PIC wins. Always, every time. As a student pilot, that's the instructor for all dual flights. Once you're rated, it's you, even with an instructor.

It's not just a good idea, it's the law. Specifically, 14 CFR 91.3(a).

Land, shut down, tie down, and have any arguments after you're done.
 
MAKG1 said:
Land, shut down, tie down, and have any arguments after you're done.
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Uh, no. If there is a dangerous situation, speak up. Delaying the arguments until later might be too late. You will be dead.
 
Plonkywonk said:
Uh, no. If there is a dangerous situation, speak up. Delaying the arguments until later might be too late. You will be dead.
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At the risk of feeding a really obvious troll, having two people in charge, or arguing about who is in charge, virtually guarantees something bad happens.

You can say something -- that's the communication thing again -- but arguing is NEVER appropriate while in the air. The PIC has authority to make the decision, and no one else does.

Study up on what it means to be pilot in command.
 
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Mutiny in an aircraft? Sounds like a bad situation, tracking the dangerous radial out of no-go.

2Airtime2: Your CFI (flightschool?) makes yall call out GUMPS before every landing?
 
Glad you're getting it down.

Just a view from the other side. Discussing that landing would be the right thing to do if it's in a way that's coaching you through this one. Like "you did X here last time, it should be Y, so go ahead and do that". Be glad he's pushing you as long as he's not getting ****y. I'm courteous, but I aggravate and **** off students at times because I'm demanding. That's how I was taught, and trust me, you'll be glad he's that way
 
dlsmith said:
Glad you're getting it down.

Just a view from the other side. Discussing that landing would be the right thing to do if it's in a way that's coaching you through this one. Like "you did X here last time, it should be Y, so go ahead and do that". Be glad he's pushing you as long as he's not getting ****y. I'm courteous, but I aggravate and **** off students at times because I'm demanding. That's how I was taught, and trust me, you'll be glad he's that way
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I had the same type of instructor 35 years ago..... And I an SOOO glad he pushed me as hard as he did... As I an a better pilot for it......

Thanks Glen Perkins, where ever you are...:wink2::wink2::wink2::thumbsup:
 
Lachlan said:
Pluckyduck, no matter what happens during a dual flight with a student pilot, the CFI is PIC by law. Imminent danger, your poor attitude, or feeling like a superhero won't matter. So, really, it's more like "Uh, yes." You should read the CFR 14 regs and the AIM, PHAK, AFH, and everything else that pertains to learning before you spout off like an ignoramus. You're probably a decent young man, but you post like a pompous ass. It doesn't come off as funny or cool. Try being a bit humble and you'll get more help here than you could ever imagine, and it *WILL* save you time and money on flight training.
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Don't worry.....

GRAVITY will weed out the trolls..... Real Quick....
 
I've been on 2 solo lessons and did about 15 landings during those 2 flights. 2 of them were just ok and the rest pretty good. For some reason when my cfi is sitting next to me I revert back to bad landings sometimes. We had a long x-country yesterday with lots of touch and goes. I finally relaxed a little and started making good landings again towards the end. I guess I try too hard when he's there.

The "anchor" reference above made me share my experience with it.
 
Keep at it Airtime, it will all come together as you gain more experience. Your confidence will greatly increase once you have your PPC.
 
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