Rndmtrvlr
Pre-takeoff checklist
. . . because I just found out that the club plane I had scheduled tomorrow (and for the next three days) is grounded for maintenance? Nose gear switch problem. 
Is it immature to stamp my foot and pout . . .
- Thread starter Rndmtrvlr
- Start date
. . . because I just found out that the club plane I had scheduled tomorrow (and for the next three days) is grounded for maintenance? Nose gear switch problem.
No, that's ok, just leave a couple of whiney voicemails on the maintenance officers company mailbox, make sure to include some subtle personal attacks. He needs that.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Don't like it? Get your own, and manage your own maintenance, and pay for it too. Make you homesick for your club.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Only if you do it publicly, frustrating but do you want to fly what I'm guessing is a retract with gear problems?. . . because I just found out that the club plane I had scheduled tomorrow (and for the next three days) is grounded for maintenance? Nose gear switch problem.
Rndmtrvlr
Pre-takeoff checklist
Ha Ha! You guys have it all wrong! I love the club . . . happy with the maintenance officer (and all others) . . . would never want to fly a plane with gear issues . . . and am thrilled to find an affordable way to fly a couple of different kinds of planes (especially higher performance planes) on a regular basis.
I just wanted to be airborne at 0700 tomorrow. Crazy me . . . still enough in love with flight to be irritated when something gets in the way.
I just wanted to be airborne at 0700 tomorrow. Crazy me . . . still enough in love with flight to be irritated when something gets in the way.
At least that's a decent reason.
The place I used to rent ( past tense), the CFI there would routinely bump reservations by renters if he had students who wanted the same plane, because of course, then he would also get paid.
The place I used to rent ( past tense), the CFI there would routinely bump reservations by renters if he had students who wanted the same plane, because of course, then he would also get paid.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't know about the making you homesick for the club part, but I do agree that the grass isn't always greener.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Yikes, here there's only one person allowed to bump reservations, and that's me, cuz when I need it, you don't want it
poadeleted21
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Not in the least, my A&P bills are the easiest money to spend on my plane, having the throttle, fuel level and hobbs right where you left it, maintenance done on my schedule .... priceless. I'm not sure there is another human on earth that I could agree with on pizza toppings much less aircraft finances, maintenance and usage...
dell30rb
Final Approach
My only gripe about my club is that we use a wet fuel rate. It really sucks when I have to pay a hundred bucks an hour to idle on the taxiway.
Also it costs everyone more money in the end, as pilots run the airplanes harder as the fuel cost matters nothing to them. This means everyone is paying for a max GPH fuel burn rate. And no one cares about finding a less expensive fuel stop.
That said our club has good aircraft availability, and I've had a mostly pleasant experience with the officers and instructors.
Also it costs everyone more money in the end, as pilots run the airplanes harder as the fuel cost matters nothing to them. This means everyone is paying for a max GPH fuel burn rate. And no one cares about finding a less expensive fuel stop.
That said our club has good aircraft availability, and I've had a mostly pleasant experience with the officers and instructors.
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Sac Arrow
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Snorting his way across the USA
I've been grounded far more times because my own plane was in for maintenance or otherwise on the blink than I have been unable to rent a club plane.
PilotAlan
Pattern Altitude
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PilotAlan
I'll never understand why places don't rent by tach time, wet.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
As an upfront disclaimer I own my aircraft and even have my own private airport so I don't need the CAP plane to satisfy my flying cravings........................
With that said I joined the local Civil Air Patrol to help fellow aviators in their times of trouble. Got fingerprinted,,,had the background check done, I did the SAREX's, attended monthly meetings and jumped through more hurdles then I care to remember. Then I realize it is a retired military flying club where all the others lowlife civilan members are " lower then second class people. One local check pilot who gives/ gave the form 5 check ride was worshiped as the "bestpilot" they had ever seen.... This yahoo even wrote a book on mountian flying and was a legend in his own mind. There was NO way I would ride to Dairy Queen with him an a Mack Truck, never the less let him give me a form 5 in a CAP plane..... He was only 3000 feet lower then he should have been on this flight. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/qd54clj1jhbrnz45acrjuu551/D09072011120000.pdf
Then there was the highly touted "mountian rated" pilot who was the instructor of the CAP Mountian Fury flying course. This rocket scientist took out himself and 2 other innocent humans....... http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20070827X01244&ntsbno=DEN07FA140&akey=1
My current policy is..... I will NOT fly in a CAP plane unless I am at the controls and have complete authority in the outcome of the flight. I am not about to have some idiot kill me because he/she knows how to play the system and work their way into the left seat without having commom sense.... YMMV...
Just my .02 cents worth.....
Ben.
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poadeleted21
Touchdown! Greaser!
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- 12,332
As an upfront disclaimer I own my aircraft and even have my own private airport so I don't need the CAP plane to satisfy my flying cravings........................
With that said I joined the local Civil Air Patrol to help fellow aviators in their times of trouble. Got fingerprinted,,,had the background check done, I did the SAREX's, attended monthly meetings and jumped through more hurdles then I care to remember. Then I realize it is a retired military flying club where all the others lowlife civilan members are " lower then second class people. One local check pilot who gives/ gave the form 5 check ride was worshiped as the "bestpilot" they had ever seen.... This yahoo even wrote a book on mountian flying and was a legend in his own mind. There was NO way I would ride to Dairy Queen with him an a Mack Truck, never the less let him give me a form 5 in a CAP plane..... He was only 3000 feet lower then he should have been on this flight. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/qd54clj1jhbrnz45acrjuu551/D09072011120000.pdf
Then there was the highly touted "mountian rated" pilot who was the instructor of the CAP Mountian Fury flying course. This rocket scientist took out himself and 2 other innocent humans....... http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20070827X01244&ntsbno=DEN07FA140&akey=1
My current policy is..... I will NOT fly in a CAP plane unless I am at the controls and have complete authority in the outcome of the flight. I am not about to have some idiot kill me because he/she knows how to play the system and work their way into the left seat without having commom sense.... YMMV...
Just my .02 cents worth.....
Ben.
I would reply to this but I don't want another "RV Pilot" thread.
Nothing really to reply to....... Facts are the facts.... I am still alive... they are dead.
poadeleted21
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Lets just say I inquired about CAP, laughed hysterically and hung up, got on the internet wondering if "it was just the local version", it was not.
dell30rb
Final Approach
You mean tach time dry?
BillTIZ
Final Approach
CAP, Come And Pay
. . . because I just found out that the club plane I had scheduled tomorrow (and for the next three days) is grounded for maintenance? Nose gear switch problem.
Yes, the mature reaction would be to buy a plane.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
. . . because I just found out that the club plane I had scheduled tomorrow (and for the next three days) is grounded for maintenance? Nose gear switch problem.
You are describing one of the happiest days of my life.
We had the day off. We had the kids out of school. We had the weather. We had our parents waiting for us.
Then, the rental plane was reported as being "down". Again. Trip scrubbed.
Mary, seething, turned to me and snapped "Why don't you buy an airplane!"
That was 13 years ago. I am still giggling.
airguy
Cleared for Takeoff
As an upfront disclaimer I own my aircraft and even have my own private airport so I don't need the CAP plane to satisfy my flying cravings........................
With that said I joined the local Civil Air Patrol to help fellow aviators in their times of trouble. Got fingerprinted,,,had the background check done, I did the SAREX's, attended monthly meetings and jumped through more hurdles then I care to remember. Then I realize it is a retired military flying club where all the others lowlife civilan members are " lower then second class people. One local check pilot who gives/ gave the form 5 check ride was worshiped as the "bestpilot" they had ever seen.... This yahoo even wrote a book on mountian flying and was a legend in his own mind. There was NO way I would ride to Dairy Queen with him an a Mack Truck, never the less let him give me a form 5 in a CAP plane..... He was only 3000 feet lower then he should have been on this flight. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/qd54clj1jhbrnz45acrjuu551/D09072011120000.pdf
Then there was the highly touted "mountian rated" pilot who was the instructor of the CAP Mountian Fury flying course. This rocket scientist took out himself and 2 other innocent humans....... http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20070827X01244&ntsbno=DEN07FA140&akey=1
My current policy is..... I will NOT fly in a CAP plane unless I am at the controls and have complete authority in the outcome of the flight. I am not about to have some idiot kill me because he/she knows how to play the system and work their way into the left seat without having commom sense.... YMMV...
Just my .02 cents worth.....
Ben.
Yep, I had a very similar experience with CAP. It's a crying shame that they are more worried about being self-important, pulling rank and paperwork than they are about flying. Never again.
Rndmtrvlr
Pre-takeoff checklist
You are describing one of the happiest days of my life.
We had the day off. We had the kids out of school. We had the weather. We had our parents waiting for us.
Then, the rental plane was reported as being "down". Again. Trip scrubbed.
Mary, seething, turned to me and snapped "Why don't you buy an airplane!"
That was 13 years ago. I am still giggling.
I think I see where my mistake was . . . . I feel a PLAN coming on!
denverpilot
Tied Down
There's definitely good Squadrons and bad ones.
Usually the good one's are built around a core of two or three dedicated CFIs. When that's missing, stuff usually goes off the rails pretty quick.
Finding CFIs who'll work for free is CAP's biggest "big picture" problem IMHO.
I'm in what I would characterize as a "good" Squadron overall. But the check pilots are either over 70 or pushing the underside of it. Young CFIs sometimes join but then move away. They're a huge asset when we have 'em. It's a big time commitment for a young/"starving" CFI, though.
Every once in a while a young CFI shows up who thinks they'll just "naturally" be good at the overall Mission stuff and won't slow down enough to see what the old guys want to teach 'em. Seen that too.
Those... Are often quite an entertaining train wreck to witness.
And yeah, there's some CFIs who are awful and pilots who are awful. Like any large organization you join, you learn how to avoid those people. Many of us would like to see them drummed out, but it's hard.
Sadly like the stories above, they're sometimes the first (and only) contact with CAP some folks ever have. The good pilots and Instructors are typically really busy and rarely out recruiting folks. They're using up all their free time teaching/flying both Seniors who need checkrides or training, or Cadets.
I've been "back in" CAP for a couple of years now. I haven't even completed a generic "Form 5" checkride since I'm also a "radio guy". Communications needs people, always. I'm so busy dealing with teaching pilots and crews how to use radios and audio panels properly that I haven't bothered jumping through the hoops yet.
With keys in my pocket that'll open my hangar and the lack of a requirement to get a Flight Release or do paperwork, my airplane is a lot easier to go fly.
Usually the good one's are built around a core of two or three dedicated CFIs. When that's missing, stuff usually goes off the rails pretty quick.
Finding CFIs who'll work for free is CAP's biggest "big picture" problem IMHO.
I'm in what I would characterize as a "good" Squadron overall. But the check pilots are either over 70 or pushing the underside of it. Young CFIs sometimes join but then move away. They're a huge asset when we have 'em. It's a big time commitment for a young/"starving" CFI, though.
Every once in a while a young CFI shows up who thinks they'll just "naturally" be good at the overall Mission stuff and won't slow down enough to see what the old guys want to teach 'em. Seen that too.
Those... Are often quite an entertaining train wreck to witness.
And yeah, there's some CFIs who are awful and pilots who are awful. Like any large organization you join, you learn how to avoid those people. Many of us would like to see them drummed out, but it's hard.
Sadly like the stories above, they're sometimes the first (and only) contact with CAP some folks ever have. The good pilots and Instructors are typically really busy and rarely out recruiting folks. They're using up all their free time teaching/flying both Seniors who need checkrides or training, or Cadets.
I've been "back in" CAP for a couple of years now. I haven't even completed a generic "Form 5" checkride since I'm also a "radio guy". Communications needs people, always. I'm so busy dealing with teaching pilots and crews how to use radios and audio panels properly that I haven't bothered jumping through the hoops yet.
With keys in my pocket that'll open my hangar and the lack of a requirement to get a Flight Release or do paperwork, my airplane is a lot easier to go fly.
DavidWhite
Final Approach
I tried to go to a CAP meeting.....had all these 12 and 13 year olds yelling at me. It wasn't for me.
I kinda thought the whole purpose was the promote aviation........I have my own plane, and didn't need to rent theirs, but I like to help people. There is also a female CAP pilot who flies gliders at my home airport who won't give me the time of day because I'm not a CAP cadet.
However there is also a really good CAP pilot at my home airport, and if all of the CAP pilots were like him there would be people scrambling to get in.
I kinda thought the whole purpose was the promote aviation........I have my own plane, and didn't need to rent theirs, but I like to help people. There is also a female CAP pilot who flies gliders at my home airport who won't give me the time of day because I'm not a CAP cadet.
However there is also a really good CAP pilot at my home airport, and if all of the CAP pilots were like him there would be people scrambling to get in.
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dell30rb
Final Approach
I was considering CAP. How much does it cost to fly? And how exactly does it work. I'm fine dealing with a few morons as long as i'm not required to fly with them. Actually saw a CAP 182 fly over today.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Just wait until you're 40 and your boss is 23.
That particular uhh... stuff... won't go away, but as you've learned, sometimes you can avoid it in life.
Cadet Squadrons are way outside of my experience... I've only ever been involved in Senior Squadrons. The Cadets come to joint exercises, and I've had my requisite background checks to make sure I'm not a pedophile so I can interact with them. I typically don't, though -- not by any choice, but because usually I'm in a radio room somewhere, busy -- where there's limited access to the general crowd at a SAREX or other large scale training, just to keep our background noise level down.
One particular Cadet was very good at Communications at an event last year... better than more than half of the adults who wanted training... (sigh)...
[/QUOTE]
Ask her which of the CAP Core Values she's following by not talking to you, and watch her head explode.
Just curious, how do you determine this if you haven't been flying with him/her? Or have you?
I find a lot of people with charisma and charm aren't necessarily all that good at pilot duties. But it doesn't mean that all who have those people skills, can't fly well.
DavidWhite
Final Approach
He is a tow pilot, I've never flown with him, but I've wingrun for him on many occasions. Everyone who has been towed by him says he a top-notch tow pilot.
DavidWhite
Final Approach
Ask her which of the CAP Core Values she's following by not talking to you, and watch her head explode.
I will definitely do that.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
One of the things about CAP units is they do not all have the same mission. Not all CAP units do SAR/flight stuff. Alot of them are more like Air Force JROTC units that don't actually fly. Sounds like you wound up at one of those.
I checked out 3 different squadrons at different times in different places, just not my thing. Even the AF guys kinda look at em funny. The kids are the kids and they are whatever. Most of what I observed was just petty political bickering and struggling for "power" when there was no "power" to be had I guess except for handing out the assignments. The games... I didn't need the flight time, I had my own plane 2 of the 3 times, I just was volunteering to do the job. Marching drills for adults? Really? In CAP? I don't even think it should come with a uniform beyond an embroidered Polo or Jacket. I think if you took away the pseudo-military uniform, half the idiots would go away.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Yeah, our Squadron doesn't do any of that stuff. Composite Squadrons with Cadets tend to.
We're a Senior only squadron with a focus on Emergency Services. We have willing pilots pair up with Cadet or Composite Squadrons for Cadet Orientation Rides. They go meet with 'em at their meetings.
We mostly show up in the "Corporate" uniform. Blue CAP Golf shirt with logo, and grey slacks, black belt, black shoes. Easy.
The only guys that wear the military style uniforms on any particular night either already had them from prior military service, or are putting on a show for visiting leadership usually.
Or... Their polo shirt was dirty. Ha. At least in our squadron.
We're pretty informal uniform-wise but it also keeps us out of trouble with inspections. It's hard to screw up a golf shirt.
BDUs maybe come out for some when it gets cold outside. And folks who (hopefully) meet the weight requirements often have a zoom bag, mostly 'cause it can be stuffed in the trunk of a car in a duffle bag with a pair of boots and if you have to launch quickly, a uniform is already in the car.
Dragging around the polo shirt/slacks combo in the car is a pain to keep it looking halfway decent. If you're going to show up and launch on a call-out, simple is better. The zoom bag works. I also keep an ANSI vest in my truck, but I suspect it'll get more use changing a tire than it ever will on a flightline.
I keep two aviator shirts and the appropriate "hardware" around for dinners or what-not.
If no jacket required, rank epaulets, a name badge, and optionally award ribbons. (I typically don't mess with the ribbons or a Specialty Track badge. I qualify to wear both the Communications and Emergency Services badges. I don't bother. I qualify for a number of ribbons, also. Ribbon trees are a hassle. They're not required on the Corporate uniform, and I don't need some para-military Gung-Ho doofus with a ruler measuring if they're pinned on in the right place.)
I suppose if I were teaching a class to a wide audience, I might bother with the ribbons and badge.
99% of the time, I'm in the polo shirt.
Adding a standard men's blue blazer over that white aviator shirt (hardware removed) with a breast pocket ID plate and an approved tie is a good easy combo for dinner events and still a "Corporate" uniform, non-military.
Can also easily wear the blank white aviator shirt at the office with grey slacks, and just toss the nameplate in the breast pocket of a blue blazer to head to a meeting after work if your office is dressier than the jeans and t-shirt that's getting more common each day.
(Only pain here. If you remove the blazer, then the epaulets and name badge at least are supposed to be on the aviator shirt. So it's normal to leave the blazer on to not mess with it.)
Those Corporate uniforms cover just about anything and are not going to get anyone busted for wearing the military style stuff wrong.
I may add BDUs to my collection but only because they're warm for the back seat during winter flying. I'm doing some train-the-trainer type stuff in Aerial Photography and that camera port open is a lovely blast of frigid air in the winter.
There are certain very visible public events that really do call for AF style dress blues. I do not meet the weight requirements so I just avoid those events. Funerals, for example. Meeting the State representatives in certain settings. Parades.
Not my gig.
We're a Senior only squadron with a focus on Emergency Services. We have willing pilots pair up with Cadet or Composite Squadrons for Cadet Orientation Rides. They go meet with 'em at their meetings.
We mostly show up in the "Corporate" uniform. Blue CAP Golf shirt with logo, and grey slacks, black belt, black shoes. Easy.
The only guys that wear the military style uniforms on any particular night either already had them from prior military service, or are putting on a show for visiting leadership usually.
Or... Their polo shirt was dirty. Ha. At least in our squadron.
We're pretty informal uniform-wise but it also keeps us out of trouble with inspections. It's hard to screw up a golf shirt.
BDUs maybe come out for some when it gets cold outside. And folks who (hopefully) meet the weight requirements often have a zoom bag, mostly 'cause it can be stuffed in the trunk of a car in a duffle bag with a pair of boots and if you have to launch quickly, a uniform is already in the car.
Dragging around the polo shirt/slacks combo in the car is a pain to keep it looking halfway decent. If you're going to show up and launch on a call-out, simple is better. The zoom bag works. I also keep an ANSI vest in my truck, but I suspect it'll get more use changing a tire than it ever will on a flightline.
I keep two aviator shirts and the appropriate "hardware" around for dinners or what-not.
If no jacket required, rank epaulets, a name badge, and optionally award ribbons. (I typically don't mess with the ribbons or a Specialty Track badge. I qualify to wear both the Communications and Emergency Services badges. I don't bother. I qualify for a number of ribbons, also. Ribbon trees are a hassle. They're not required on the Corporate uniform, and I don't need some para-military Gung-Ho doofus with a ruler measuring if they're pinned on in the right place.)
I suppose if I were teaching a class to a wide audience, I might bother with the ribbons and badge.
99% of the time, I'm in the polo shirt.
Adding a standard men's blue blazer over that white aviator shirt (hardware removed) with a breast pocket ID plate and an approved tie is a good easy combo for dinner events and still a "Corporate" uniform, non-military.
Can also easily wear the blank white aviator shirt at the office with grey slacks, and just toss the nameplate in the breast pocket of a blue blazer to head to a meeting after work if your office is dressier than the jeans and t-shirt that's getting more common each day.
(Only pain here. If you remove the blazer, then the epaulets and name badge at least are supposed to be on the aviator shirt. So it's normal to leave the blazer on to not mess with it.)
Those Corporate uniforms cover just about anything and are not going to get anyone busted for wearing the military style stuff wrong.
I may add BDUs to my collection but only because they're warm for the back seat during winter flying. I'm doing some train-the-trainer type stuff in Aerial Photography and that camera port open is a lovely blast of frigid air in the winter.
There are certain very visible public events that really do call for AF style dress blues. I do not meet the weight requirements so I just avoid those events. Funerals, for example. Meeting the State representatives in certain settings. Parades.
Not my gig.
See, I don't understand the entire concept of "Busted", when it comes to a CAP uniform etiquette.
Everskyward
Experimenter
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- 33,448
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Display name:
Everskyward
Not my thing either. Too much structure and hierarchy for something that I'm not getting paid to do. Somehow I don't see that kind of thing as "fun". I was invited a few times way in the past but I declined.
ChrisK
En-Route
Here, let me skip introducing myself and help derail further...
CAP has 3 missions:
Most of CAP's rules are due to the fact that the government gives them money to buy stuff, and they expect CAP to be responsible stewards of this stuff. Organizationally, CAP has gotten high marks when compared to their military big brothers in these areas.
In terms of why a CFI or other responsible adult would involve themselves, I have to say that it is a nice way to satisfy a volunteer itch. I get to do some things I enjoy (I'm a new student pilot with a ton of experience in CAP communications, so I too am in the radio room), and eventually I'll get to do some more work in CAP airplanes as part of missions or for a pretty good rate.
Finally, if I'm willing to devote a lot of time to it (I am and I do), I can get into a position where I can help people cut through paperwork and requirements rather than being an obstacle. Like any other organization, it is up to the people to be obstacles or to enable others. I empower others, and in my wing (state) I'm in a position to do that somewhat. Not everyone else does / is.
Oh, and I'm new to this forum. Thanks for letting me dive in =)
CAP has 3 missions:
- Aerospace Education - Cadets (up to age 21) have a rather complete program that includes testing and continuing education. Seniors (21+ usually, 18+ to join) take an open book test to punch the AE ticket and that's usually about it.
- Emergency Services - divided into "search and rescue" and "disaster relief", further loosely subdivided into airborne search and / or damage assessment / reconnaissance, ground search / disaster relief, and communications / mission base / public affairs type support (the USAF recently dumped some $40M into CAP's communications system, and we're just now learning how to use it). Also, the military / government is more recently using CAP's assets to assist with other agencies or train military units to interact with general aviation aircraft in many ways.
- Cadet program - a full-fledged air force JROTC-type youth organization that is involved in CAP's other missions, as well as many other neat activities for military-minded youth.
Most of CAP's rules are due to the fact that the government gives them money to buy stuff, and they expect CAP to be responsible stewards of this stuff. Organizationally, CAP has gotten high marks when compared to their military big brothers in these areas.
In terms of why a CFI or other responsible adult would involve themselves, I have to say that it is a nice way to satisfy a volunteer itch. I get to do some things I enjoy (I'm a new student pilot with a ton of experience in CAP communications, so I too am in the radio room), and eventually I'll get to do some more work in CAP airplanes as part of missions or for a pretty good rate.
Finally, if I'm willing to devote a lot of time to it (I am and I do), I can get into a position where I can help people cut through paperwork and requirements rather than being an obstacle. Like any other organization, it is up to the people to be obstacles or to enable others. I empower others, and in my wing (state) I'm in a position to do that somewhat. Not everyone else does / is.
Oh, and I'm new to this forum. Thanks for letting me dive in =)
It's good that there are still some "non blockers" in CAP, because they don't seem to be the norm. I'm an adult and looked at the adult program, as I said, the kids are the kids. The adults were the ones that bothered me.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Mostly just an on-your-honor thing. Was a bigger deal with CAP only wore hand-me-down AF Uniforms, since wearing those poorly reflected on those who serve.
Wearing the AF style uniforms wrong, one can be sent home from an exercise, or mission. The AF liaisons get ****ed when they see their uniforms worn wrong on local TV stations, for example.
That's the "real world" bust. As far as at a meeting or something, you might get someone who'd walk up and say something.
If they were doing it for any reason other than to help you get it right, the appropriate response is probably to calmly tell them they're out of line, and you'll look up the reg and fix it, if necessary.
Around our group, it'd be handled by a squadron officer and discreetly. Only to make sure someone wasn't turned away at a later exercise, etc. Most of us fully understand we're working with adult volunteers, not teaching boot camp skills to 18 year olds.
And we stand in front of the group and actually RECOMMEND the golf shirt... seriously, it's just easier. No Dudley Doright's can pick on that one.
Exactly, problem is everybody involved doesn't see things the same as you unfortunately. Some groups I met would always meet and turnout in the AF style uniform and they spent more energy on that and other items of protocol than mission readiness. I don't need to sign up to volunteer for that. I get paid a lot of money to give that kind of control of my life over, I don't just give it away. You want to work on airplanes, mission planning exercises, coordination and emergency services procedures, fine, I'm up for that. To sit around for hours getting lectured on protocol on uniforms and flags and learning all the insignias and how we purport ourselves with AF personnel.... ecchhhh, I'm over it. I can't be bothered with having a hateful experience. I've dealt with several flag and many field grade officers over the years, we always got along just fine. There is no reason I need go into the minutia. I haven't checked out the locals, maybe they'll have people like you....
denverpilot
Tied Down
Heh heh. I sure hope so. What a waste of time otherwise. No wonder you ran away.
COWG is looking for a Repeater maintenance/engineering guy to replace a friend of mine who was doing it until he was recently promoted to Vice-Commander.
I'm trying to come up with good reasons other than "no" not to apply. Well that and, "Do I really have time for more of this stuff?!"
I kinda need to go get my Instrument rating done first. Sigh.
COWG is looking for a Repeater maintenance/engineering guy to replace a friend of mine who was doing it until he was recently promoted to Vice-Commander.
I'm trying to come up with good reasons other than "no" not to apply. Well that and, "Do I really have time for more of this stuff?!"
I kinda need to go get my Instrument rating done first. Sigh.