PFD says 80% power; what's the fuel flow at that altitude and power setting (ballpark)?
Is a 172 D model and newer a capable X-country plane?
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PFD says 80% power; what's the fuel flow at that altitude and power setting (ballpark)?
RudyP
Cleared for Takeoff
17GPH
Here is the full pic including MFD- I had cropped just the PFD in the previous pic.
Here is the full pic including MFD- I had cropped just the PFD in the previous pic.
brcase
En-Route
I wasn't that long ago that if wanted to buy a Commanche there were generally two kinds on the market (and maybe it is still true) , quite a few that were one or two owner airplanes (for a 50 year old airplane) that were pretty much original, ie, very old panels. Or the really nice ones that someone had spent a lot of money on and then decided to move up to twin or turboprop. Never met a Commanche owner that didn't love the airplane.
The 250/260 with tip/tanks are awesome. I did my CFI in one that a local charter company used they loved it because they ran the FBO and got fuel at cost, with 90 gallons of fuel available they could usually go round trip without refueling.
Brian
Shepherd
Final Approach
Used to fly all over the country in a PA-11 on floats.
Most of the time I didn't care where I was going, so I didn't care how long it took.
Later on (after I got out of the Air Force), I was flying a T-28D. It was always a race to see if I would get there with fuel in the tanks.
Now I'm limited by OGB*, so fuel is never a problem, but time is.
*Old Guy Bladder
Most of the time I didn't care where I was going, so I didn't care how long it took.
Later on (after I got out of the Air Force), I was flying a T-28D. It was always a race to see if I would get there with fuel in the tanks.
Now I'm limited by OGB*, so fuel is never a problem, but time is.
*Old Guy Bladder
midcap
Pattern Altitude
midcap
Pattern Altitude
wow, it's like a space ship with all that info.
very nice plane and holy smokes on the ground speed in the other pic.
Skywalker
Cleared for Takeoff
I would say that you can be happy with a 172. You know the disadvantages already. If you don't plan to fly long distances other than those you posted, plan enough time and fuel stops and you will be fine.
We figured that a 172 is too slow for us as we love to fly long distances (e.g. 1200 NM in one weekend) and it can be annoying if your legs are determined by your fuel stops. I loved the 172 but she wasn't the right plane for us on the long run.
We figured that a 172 is too slow for us as we love to fly long distances (e.g. 1200 NM in one weekend) and it can be annoying if your legs are determined by your fuel stops. I loved the 172 but she wasn't the right plane for us on the long run.
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Do the math on block to block time in a C-172 versus something faster. It will help decide whether the time you will save twice a year is worth the extra cost.
I frequently check FlightAware just for grins. There are usually a LOT of C-172's flying cross country in the system. Not the fastest, but it has a lot going for it.
I frequently check FlightAware just for grins. There are usually a LOT of C-172's flying cross country in the system. Not the fastest, but it has a lot going for it.
FastEddieB
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Fast Eddie B
I'll second a Tiger is worth considering.
About 132 kts @ 10 gph w/50 gal tanks.
About 132 kts @ 10 gph w/50 gal tanks.
iflyvfr
Pattern Altitude
I wondered whether you'd be satisfied for long Oliver. I've had mine all over and am about to embark on another epic journey thru the UP ending up in OSH. It's great for this kind of flying. This Spring I flew a 8.5 hr drive in 3 hrs block to block (Columbus to Manassas). But the trips up home to Mass. are 5.5 fly time and it's exactly then that I wish for something faster. Like RV speeds.
German guy
Cleared for Takeoff
We were looking for a used two seat Van's RV for the time until we get our RV-10 done. Actually, we are currently in Florida, where we completed today our tailwheel endorsements and the transition trainings for the RV-6 and RV-6A models, which will also be good for the other two seaters.
However, we stumbled over a supposedly VERY nice Mooney M20E, which we will check out with our mechanic Wednesday evening. If it turns out to be in reality as nice as on the pictures and in the descriptions, we will buy it.
German guy
Cleared for Takeoff
Hello Greg,
Now this is a funny coincidence. You were just making you post as I was typing my response to Ed...
We absolutely underestimated the distances we would actually be travelling.
A few weeks ago, Martina and I for example combined a Pilots And Paws flight with a weekend trip to New York City. We departed Friday evening after work with a small dog, which we dropped off in Lulay Caverns, in the Appalchian Mountains close to Washington DC at 10:30 pm. By the time we arrived in Reading, it was already 1:30 am. The next day we continued to Morristown, from were we drove with a rental car to NYC. In the evening, we flew the Hudson River Exlusion at night (VERY cool). Sunday, we picked up 3 cats in Stewart, north or NYC and flew them to Flint, MI. By them time we were back home, it was already evening.
Long story short - it was a really nice trip, but flying the 1,200 nm took us 14 hours of flight time in 2.5 days! In a RV or even an older Mooney, we could have made the same trip in around 9 - 10 hours and with 2 fuel stops less.
Now this is a funny coincidence. You were just making you post as I was typing my response to Ed...
We absolutely underestimated the distances we would actually be travelling.
A few weeks ago, Martina and I for example combined a Pilots And Paws flight with a weekend trip to New York City. We departed Friday evening after work with a small dog, which we dropped off in Lulay Caverns, in the Appalchian Mountains close to Washington DC at 10:30 pm. By the time we arrived in Reading, it was already 1:30 am. The next day we continued to Morristown, from were we drove with a rental car to NYC. In the evening, we flew the Hudson River Exlusion at night (VERY cool). Sunday, we picked up 3 cats in Stewart, north or NYC and flew them to Flint, MI. By them time we were back home, it was already evening.
Long story short - it was a really nice trip, but flying the 1,200 nm took us 14 hours of flight time in 2.5 days! In a RV or even an older Mooney, we could have made the same trip in around 9 - 10 hours and with 2 fuel stops less.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I honestly couldn't say for certain, since it depends more of breadth than height (Al Mooney was a tall guy). I fell in love when I sat in one, Al Mooney built it with me in mind. My short body Mooney is one of the few planes that I can see over the panel. I rather wear it, which I rather like.
Find one at a fly in (I hear there's a big one coming up in Wisconsin) or at your airport. Go find one for sale to look at. Sit in it, see how it feels.
MooneyDriver78
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Tom
It's not height that's the problem, it's width and the low sitting position with legs extended. If you wear a size 42 jacket and your copilot does as well, you'll touch shoulders.
midcap
Pattern Altitude
I wear a 48
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Look, anyone wanting to see how they fit in a Mooney is welcome to sit in mine. It will be stationed in the North 40 at Whitman regional airport with luck starting this Saturday.
gsengle
Pattern Altitude
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Gsengle
I'm a 46 and im happy in a Mooney... It is even better when no one in the back seat you just let the passenger seat in front slide back a little so your shoulders are staggered...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RudyP
Cleared for Takeoff
Ouch! At my block speed of 185KTS, 1200NM would be 6.5hrs and I'm constantly looking at turboprops and VLJs... I do fly 1200NM (each way) several times a year from my home in Columbus Ohio to my parents' summer place in western Montana though and that 6-7 hours of flying is a lot for one day.
FlyingIsGood
Pre-takeoff checklist
6', 185, 32W 44 Jacket here. I guess I'll have to find one to sit in and see.
Can't make it up to WI to test it out, but maybe someone in the Houston area has one I could sit in just to see how it goes. Any Houston area Mooney M20x Pilots in Houston wanna go for a ride?
I touch shoulders with most folks I fly with in a PA28, so it sounds like a Mooney might be a "close friend" type of situation. Will have to find out for myself to see.
Thanks for the replies, folks!
gitmo234
Line Up and Wait
It can be done, but it's not fun. I have a hunch you'll get tired of that if you really do it every year. I've taken my 1956 Cessan 172 on many cross countries in 2 years. Indianapolis to Maryland, Maryland to Jekyll Island, Maryland to Nashville, Maryland to Mississippi, then a bunch of shorter ones that are cross country but not super long. By maryland I mean 58M... the far north eastern corner of maryland.
On all those really long flights with multiple refuel stops I ended up with a sore ass, dehydrated, and tired. It can be done, but it can also be done better
On all those really long flights with multiple refuel stops I ended up with a sore ass, dehydrated, and tired. It can be done, but it can also be done better
steingar
Taxi to Parking
The Mooney factory is in Kerrville, and there are lots of Texas Mooneys. Worst case you find one for sale to go sit in.
German guy
Cleared for Takeoff
Before my wife and I decided to move forward with the M20E, we sat in a buddy's M20F (longer fuselage, same cockpit width).
While the seating position was very different from our Cessna, more comparable to a sports car, we felt that the width of the cockpit was very similar. If one is comfortable with the cockpit width of a Cherokee or a 172, a Mooney should therefore be just fine.
Just be aware that the short body Mooneys don't have much leg room in the rear seats, if the people sitting up front have long legs.
While the seating position was very different from our Cessna, more comparable to a sports car, we felt that the width of the cockpit was very similar. If one is comfortable with the cockpit width of a Cherokee or a 172, a Mooney should therefore be just fine.
Just be aware that the short body Mooneys don't have much leg room in the rear seats, if the people sitting up front have long legs.
midcap
Pattern Altitude
1200 in a day is a lot of fled died
Yeah, I can see that hap
I don't have long legs, so that's not a problem.
The 172 is tight for me, but not uncomfortable, I do the normal hour long flight lesson with no problems.
Did I read that right, a M20J cruises at 170kts?
That's moving good there.
FastEddieB
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Fast Eddie B
Not sure, but the model name for the M20J is the 201, which was allegedly the top speed in mph.
170 kts = 196 mph, so it's within reason.
midcap
Pattern Altitude
Grum.Man
En-Route
All this talk about cruise speeds and range when in my mind comfort is the biggest thing I look for. A 2 hour flight in my Grumman is torture and every minute seems to take 10. A 2 hour flight in my Questair Venture is a breeze. I would take a slow plane with room and an autopilot over a fast one without any day.
German guy
Cleared for Takeoff
Even though this guy makes a living with Mooneys, his FAQs seem to nicely conclude the pros and cons of Mooneys and are in accordance with what I learned about them. He also compares the cabin width of different GA aircraft: http://www.mooneymart.com/forsale/buyersfaq.php
Looking at what you want to do with your plane, I actually think that a Mooney M20C would be a better fit than a 172. The procurement costs would be very similar, I understand (no personal experience yet) that the operating costs would be only minimally higher, but that they are easily offset by the better fuel economy.
Looking at what you want to do with your plane, I actually think that a Mooney M20C would be a better fit than a 172. The procurement costs would be very similar, I understand (no personal experience yet) that the operating costs would be only minimally higher, but that they are easily offset by the better fuel economy.
midcap
Pattern Altitude
While I never used an AUto pilot, I am guessing it's awesome to have on a long cross country .
Grum.Man
En-Route
It all but eliminates pilot fatigue especially when combined with a constant speed propeller.
I think you'll find that most 20Js (201s) won't actually do 170kts at a reasonable power setting, fuel flow and altitude. Based on my research, they're more like 160kts TAS (which is nothing to sneeze at with 4 cylinders).
coma24
Line Up and Wait
Ahh, yes, the myth that speed has to cost money. My plane does 192ktas lean of peak at ~9gph and was just a shade over $70k. The cost of doing a 500nm trip with it is significantly less than a 172.
Speed doesn't always have to cost a lot of money, but it will cost you 2 seats.
FWIW, I was about to go in on a Tiger when I came across the Lancair and realized just how much performance the 4 seater was going to cost compared to the 2 seater.
Speed doesn't always have to cost a lot of money, but it will cost you 2 seats.
FWIW, I was about to go in on a Tiger when I came across the Lancair and realized just how much performance the 4 seater was going to cost compared to the 2 seater.
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Pilawt
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Pilawt
That's if you're really putting the whip to it. At normal cruise power I usually saw 155-160 KTAS in the M20J.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
The M20J is really the sweet spot of the Mooney line. 160 knots is nothing to sneeze at out of an I0360.
I went for a short bodied Mooney for a couple reasons. The biggest was the Johnson bar gear. Easily the most carefree gear system. The hydraulic flaps were a big plus too. Not a big fan of flap motors that break at inopportune times. Even so, I'll bet my maintenance costs are a great deal high than a trainer like a Skyhawk. More systems to inspect, more to break. But at least with the J-bar Mooney those systems were pretty stone simple. The M20E runs a 200 hp fuel injected engine, which I really liked, otherwise it was identical to the M20C I acquired. Problem was I couldn't find and M20E that really fit my bill, and the M20C I bought most certainly did.
The short bodied Mooneys are the least expensive entry into the world of complex aircraft. Biggest bang for the buck by far.
I went for a short bodied Mooney for a couple reasons. The biggest was the Johnson bar gear. Easily the most carefree gear system. The hydraulic flaps were a big plus too. Not a big fan of flap motors that break at inopportune times. Even so, I'll bet my maintenance costs are a great deal high than a trainer like a Skyhawk. More systems to inspect, more to break. But at least with the J-bar Mooney those systems were pretty stone simple. The M20E runs a 200 hp fuel injected engine, which I really liked, otherwise it was identical to the M20C I acquired. Problem was I couldn't find and M20E that really fit my bill, and the M20C I bought most certainly did.
The short bodied Mooneys are the least expensive entry into the world of complex aircraft. Biggest bang for the buck by far.
RudyP
Cleared for Takeoff
And in fairness, Keith, the two seats that you do have are not huge! But that is a very cool little rocket you have there. Are you still at Lincoln Park? I stopped in a few weeks ago and had a burger at the Sunset Grill while waiting out some storms/congestion in the NYC B on my way to a wedding on Long Island.
Grum.Man
En-Route
My two seats are pretty spacious and I can do 240 kts on 13 gph lop or 200 knts at 9.5 lop.
rbridges
En-Route
I flew a Cherokee 180 for a year or so prior to my mooney. I'm somewhat impatient and I remember flying west out of Hilton head. My ground speed was 68 knots. I saw cars on I-16 pulling ahead of me. Headwinds are a pain which is more noticeable in slower planes.
RudyP
Cleared for Takeoff
My two seats are pretty spacious and I can do 240 kts on 13 gph lop or 200 knts at 9.5 lop.
That's just amazing!
rbridges
En-Route
My two seats are pretty spacious and I can do 240 kts on 13 gph lop or 200 knts at 9.5 lop.
yeah, your plane is pretty sweet!
midcap
Pattern Altitude
those are phenomenal numbers but I really need at least a 4 seater.My two seats are pretty spacious and I can do 240 kts on 13 gph lop or 200 knts at 9.5 lop.