IR X/C counts for Commercial?

[bqmassey]

The commercial requirements—§61.129(c)(3)(ii)—includes "One 2-hour cross country flight in a helicopter in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure".

My instrument cross-country was

• More than 2 hours
• In a helicopter
• In daytime conditions
• With a straight-line distance > 50 NM from the original point of departure

But it was also under the hood. Is there anything in the regulations, ACs, interpretations, or other that insists that I cannot count my instrument cross-country towards my commercial requirements?

To provide a little bit of context, I currently have over 23 hours of X/C time (the kind that can used to meet aeronautical experience requirements, not the short kind) in helicopters, much of it dual, some of it solo. A week ago I did a cross-country with my instructor but it was only 1.8 hrs. I'd like to avoid spending money on a flight that isn't actually required.

 

[nosehair]

You're reading and quoting a specific paragraph and verse as if it stands alone

61.127(c)(3) begins with "20 hours of training in the areas listed in 61.127(b)(3) which is commercial maneuvers, but does list "navigation".
If your instructor considers that both objectives are accomplished and so endorsed, it can be used.

 

[bqmassey]

Yea, we covered everything in our 1.8 hour cross-country. We did that because I had never flown a X/C with him and he wanted to make sure all of the bases were covered. At this point, we would be flying the cross-country only to meet the requirement specified within §61.129(c)(3)(ii).

 

[VA Aviator]

I recently posted a very similar thread.


http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63347

 

[poadeleted20]

Yes, you can, as long as you're going for Commercial-Rotorcraft Helicopter and the flight included a landing more than 25 nm from the original point of departure (the Rotorcraft XC requirement being only half the Airplane XC requirement). This question was specifically addressed in the NPRM which deleted the VFR requirement from 61.129 for the day/night dual XC's. That said, since it was done in a helicopter, it would not count for CP-Airplane. Likewise, if it had been done in an Airplane, it would not count for CP-RH.

 

[bqmassey]

I recently posted a very similar thread.


http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63347

Thanks, I'll check that out. I searched before I posted, but didn't come up with anything.

Yes, you can, as long as you're going for Commercial-Rotorcraft Helicopter and the flight included a landing more than 25 nm from the original point of departure (the Rotorcraft XC requirement being only half the Airplane XC requirement). This question was specifically addressed in the NPRM which deleted the VFR requirement from 61.129 for the day/night dual XC's. That said, since it was done in a helicopter, it would not count for CP-Airplane. Likewise, if it had been done in an Airplane, it would not count for CP-RH.

Thanks Ron!

In this case the leg has to be 50 nm anyways, but I've been looking for the NPRM that relates to this and can't find it. I'd like to be able to print off that NPRM or anything else that I can take in to the school to show them so they don't make me do another cross-country. Any tips on where/how to search?

 

[poadeleted20]

See http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...72dfc1b3808d2cb486257656006e4d11!OpenDocument, item 62.

62. This revision of Sec. 61.129 for commercial pilot certification
allows cross country training flights to be performed under VFR or IFR

 

[bqmassey]

Thanks! This helped a lot.

I wish I knew how to find these sources on my own, but most of the FAA and it's methods are still a mystery to me.

 

[poadeleted20]

I wish I knew how to find these sources on my own, but most of the FAA and it's methods are still a mystery to me.

Start with the FAA Regulatory and Guidance Library. The rulemaking source (NPRM/FR) for each section of the regulations is at the bottom of the section. You can also find the superseded versions of each section back to the 1970's in the "Historical CFR" section.

 

[PW_Plack]

...In this case the leg has to be 50 nm anyways...

Careful! It's not one leg of 50 nm that qualifies the flight, but a landing at least 50 nm straight-line from the origin point. You could fly an A-B-C route, but either leg A or C has to be 50, or you didn't land 50 miles from home.

 

[poadeleted20]

Careful! It's not one leg of 50 nm that qualifies the flight, but a landing at least 50 nm straight-line from the origin point. You could fly an A-B-C route, but either leg A or C has to be 50, or you didn't land 50 miles from home.

It's helicopter -- only 25nm straight line distance from home is required for the landing to be "cross country". For the 2-hour dual XC for CP-RH, they don't have to land 50nm away as long as they fly 50nm away and have a landing more than 25nm away..

 

[MikeELP]

Careful! It's not one leg of 50 nm that qualifies the flight, but a landing at least 50 nm straight-line from the origin point. You could fly an A-B-C route, but either leg A or C has to be 50, or you didn't land 50 miles from home.

(Referring to fixed wing, not rotor)

In the Van Zanen interpretation, the Chief Counsel clarified this.

"Origin Point" for a cross country and "Home" do not have to be the same thing.

Fly from A ("home") <50 nm to B. Log as a flight (not XC). You then call B your "original point of departure" for the XC. Fly to C which is >50 nm, then from B back to A which is another <50 nm flight. By logging the A-B as a separate flight (repositioning), and then log the B-C-A as the cross country, you're OK.

Mike