IR Panel

[Lawreston]

My C-172L Slyhawk(that's an unintentional typo) has the basic panel:
(a) One Narco MK-12D
(b) VOR

Today I placed an order for:
(c) One used Narco MK-12D+ with Glide-slope and indicator,
said package to become Nav/Comm 1 with the original unit to be #2.
(d) One new Garmin GMA340 audio panel/4-place intercom.

The new(er) goods are being held/will be installed by Craig Avionics, Concord, NH(THE name in these parts).

How close to IR requirements will the above combination(s) configure?

There's a GPSmap296 in the panel, which I'm aware is not IR status.

HR

 

[Witmo]

My C-172L Slyhawk(that's an unintentional typo) has the basic panel:
(a) One Narco MK-12D
(b) VOR

Today I placed an order for:
(c) One used Narco MK-12D+ with Glide-slope and indicator,
said package to become Nav/Comm 1 with the original unit to be #2.
(d) One new Garmin GMA340 audio panel/4-place intercom.

The new(er) goods are being held/will be installed by Craig Avionics, Concord, NH(THE name in these parts).

How close to IR requirements will the above combination(s) configure?

There's a GPSmap296 in the panel, which I'm aware is not IR status.

HR

Equipment appropriate to the navigation facilities to be used. Two navcoms, one with gs, and a marker beacon receiver/lites are what many consider the minimum. I've got the same setup with the addition of DME.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I think to do the flight test you have to be able to do one precision (ils) and two non precision (a vor will do).

 

[gismo]

My C-172L Slyhawk(that's an unintentional typo) has the basic panel:
(a) One Narco MK-12D
(b) VOR

Today I placed an order for:
(c) One used Narco MK-12D+ with Glide-slope and indicator,
said package to become Nav/Comm 1 with the original unit to be #2.
(d) One new Garmin GMA340 audio panel/4-place intercom.

The new(er) goods are being held/will be installed by Craig Avionics, Concord, NH(THE name in these parts).

How close to IR requirements will the above combination(s) configure?

There's a GPSmap296 in the panel, which I'm aware is not IR status.

HR

I assume you have a transponder and encoder as those are required for VFR flight in many areas. Aside from that, I'd seriously consider adding an IFR GPS even if it were an older one without a map. That will allow access to many more approaches than you get with just VOR/LOC/GS capability.

 

[Lawreston]

I assume you have a transponder and encoder as those are required for VFR flight in many areas. Aside from that, I'd seriously consider adding an IFR GPS even if it were an older one without a map. That will allow access to many more approaches than you get with just VOR/LOC/GS capability.

It didn't occur to me to include the transponder/mode C in my original post. The GMA340 audio panel also has the marker beacon, as was referenced by Witmo. I'll stay aware of potential GNC ***-XL which may become available via others' upgrades.

Now, if I can get the plane out of Twitchell's Airport and down to New Hampshire. I'm at the dead end of the parking line after the Power Flow Systems installation, and April mud season came in Feb/March this year(and we're in the midst of 2-3 days of predicted rain). Arrrrgggghhhhhh!

HR

 

[poadeleted20]

Dual nav/comms (at least one with GS) plus a transponder with Mode C is quite sufficient for IR training, the IR practical test, and routine IFR flying. Many instrument instructors (including me) will insist on you getting some ADF training (even just in a PC-ATD) before signing you off for the test, but there's no requirement for it in your plane.

 

[SkykingC310]

As of 2004, when the revised Instrument PTS came out, if you have a GPS installed in your aircraft and have been trained to use it, you must demonstrate a GPS approach during the practical test.

Or something to that effect. Can someone elaborate?

 

[Len Lanetti]

As of 2004, when the revised Instrument PTS came out, if you have a GPS installed in your aircraft and have been trained to use it, you must demonstrate a GPS approach during the practical test.

Or something to that effect. Can someone elaborate?

Per the Instrument Practical Test Standards.

http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_standards/media/FAA-S-8081-4D.pdf

The GPS must be installed, meet instrument approach standards and have a current database if a GPS approach is to be done.

Additionally...

"If the practical test is conducted in an aircraft, and the aircraft has an operable and properlly installed GPS, the applicant must demonstrate GPS approach proficiency when asked."

Len

 

[SkykingC310]

Per the Instrument Practical Test Standards.

http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_standards/media/FAA-S-8081-4D.pdf

The GPS must be installed, meet instrument approach standards and have a current database if a GPS approach is to be done.

Additionally...

"If the practical test is conducted in an aircraft, and the aircraft has an operable and properlly installed GPS, the applicant must demonstrate GPS approach proficiency when asked."

Len

The very next sentence states:
If the applicant has contracted for training in an approved course that includes GPS training in the system that is installed in the airplane/simulator/FTD and the airplane/simulator/FTD used for the checking/testing has the same system properly installed and operable, the applicant must demonstrate GPS approach proficiency.

Help me understand this.

 

[Everskyward]

Help me understand this.

The way I read it is that in the first situation:

If the practical test is conducted in an aircraft, and the aircraft has an operable and properlly installed GPS, the applicant must demonstrate GPS approach proficiency when asked.

The key words are "when asked". Since you don't have to demonstrate all types of non-precision approaches on the checkride the examiner can select, for example, VOR and NDB and not GPS... or they might.

In the second situation:

If the applicant has contracted for training in an approved course that includes GPS training in the system that is installed in the airplane/simulator/FTD and the airplane/simulator/FTD used for the checking/testing has the same system properly installed and operable, the applicant must demonstrate GPS approach proficiency.

They use the word "must". I think they're saying that if you contract for a training course that is specifically approved and designed for GPS training that you are required to demonstrate a GPS approach on the checkride.

 

[gprellwitz]

A little bit of topic drift here, since Harley doesn't have an IFR GPS, but I'll note that here in the Chicago area (DuPage FSDO), it is my understanding that they will deem the airplane unacceptable for the test if you don't have the current database in an IFR GPS. So don't try to get out of flying a GPS approach by not updating the database and, if you're a renter, make sure that the plane you'll be testing in has an up-to-date GPS database.


To get back to Harley's question, I'll agree with the comments so far. It meets what I'd consider the IFR minimums, I would get an IFR GPS if you can, and use the GPSMap296 for situational awareness when really flying. It can be great for nailing the inbound course. Be prepared for it to "fail" during the checkride, though!

 

[poadeleted20]

The way I read it is that in the first situation: The key words are "when asked". Since you don't have to demonstrate all types of non-precision approaches on the checkride the examiner can select, for example, VOR and NDB and not GPS... or they might.

Right. But if it's there, you really should expect to be tested on it, because it's a high interest area these days.

In the second situation: They use the word "must". I think they're saying that if you contract for a training course that is specifically approved and designed for GPS training that you are required to demonstrate a GPS approach on the checkride.

In this context, "approved course" means a Part 141 course, so if you're coming out of a 141 course in which GPS approach training is part of the TCO, you will be doing a GPS approach on your IR practical test. If you're coming in Part 61, it's not mandatory, but as I said above, if it's there, expect it anyway.

 

[TMetzinger]

A little bit of topic drift here, since Harley doesn't have an IFR GPS, but I'll note that here in the Chicago area (DuPage FSDO), it is my understanding that they will deem the airplane unacceptable for the test if you don't have the current database in an IFR GPS. So don't try to get out of flying a GPS approach by not updating the database and, if you're a renter, make sure that the plane you'll be testing in has an up-to-date GPS database.

Placard it - GPS for VFR only. They really can't reject the airplane for any other reason than it being unairworthy, and deciding not to keep up a database doesn't do that.

Now if a nearby flight school brags that it teaches it's students to use IFR GPS and then sends them to the rides with expired databases, I can see where the FSDO would get annoyed - but like lots of other cases, they are just making stuff up to fit their notions.

 

[Len Lanetti]

If I had an installed GPS where, for some reason, I had decided not to keep the database up to date and I was coming up for a flight test I'd get a one time update for the database. Primary reason, why start off the check ride on the wrong foot. So maybe the examiner can't deny you the ride for the out of date database but he can turn the heat up a bit during the oral or practical.

"OK so now that we've got a partial panel how about an intersection hold and oh by the way all your nav gear 'cepten this here VOR has failed and ATC says your EFC is 45 minutes from now."

Len



Len