IR cross country requirements

nddons

nddons

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
13,304
Location
Waukesha County, WI
Display Name
Display name:
Stan
Arghh. I'm in the middle of my IR training, and still building my 50 XC hours. I suspected that FAR Sec. 61.65(d)'s "pilot in command" requirement meant something, so I went back and checked, and I had 9.2 hours of dual XC time while earning my PPL (a result of going through 3 CFIs in 22 months). SO, I need to add another 10 hours to my goal, leaving me 28 XC hours left to get.

My CFII said that we would get about 5 XC hours during that phase of my IR instruction, so bottom line is I'll be traveling around a lot this fall.

I was considering doing a long XC, and add to my "states I've landed in" list. One idea was to go down to Purdue, over to Peoria, down to Hannibal, MO, up through Iowa to Rochester and back to Wisconsin. That would knock out about 10 hours, but I refuse to just keep doing the same relatively short XCs over and over. The goal is to learn something, right?

Anyway, I'd love to hear if anyone else (well, besides Kent :D, because we can see what his advice would be!) has some good Midwestern XC ideas.
 
If you're far enough along to be flying approaches, consider taking a safety pilot, going under the hood, and flying an approach at each airport on your XC trip. Use flight following as much as possible to practice your radio skills. Also, try making them 3-point trips, and make a missed approach at one and a landing at one (the landing more than 50nm from the original point of departure).
 
I would agree with Ron. Just going out and building hours is, to me, no good unless you have some purpose. I wouldn't just go out flying for the sake of burning the fuel.

Pick airports (relatively at random, suggestion is fine, and if you're going with a safety pilot then look at approach plates and check out ones that would be cool to practice) to fly to. Flying to the same airport repeatedly doesn't really help you build skills as much as going to different airports. Go visit friends, go check out someplace you want to see. That'll probably build you more time faster AND help you build the skill set. After all, it's about the skill set more than the hours, right? A 50 nm XC is probably not quite as useful as, say, the required 250 nm long XC that you'll need to do for your IR anyway. If you can do a couple of those, you'll learn more.

Idea #1: Fly to 6Y9 this weekend. :)
 
Find airports not yet claimed for the ConUS Challenge and claim them. There are alot out there and it makes for interesting flights and gets you experience with lots of different airports

Barb
 
When I was training my instrument rating, my CFII said to grab hood time if I wanted. However, he cautioned me about picking up bad habits and also about not having the safety pilot "teach" unless also a CFI...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I would agree with Ron. Just going out and building hours is, to me, no good unless you have some purpose. I wouldn't just go out flying for the sake of burning the fuel
Click to expand...

Though that can be fun AND a good break from the "Gotta be training!" mindset that often brings about slumps.

Sometimes you just gotta fly nowhere special -- even in the middle of preparing for a rating.
 
When I did my IR, I also needed to build some XC time.

I flew to a bunch of places to get lunch with friends. It also depends how much time you have -- if you can fly once a week, for 3-4 hours at a time, then a bunch of 1.5-2 hour flights to a bunch of different airports can be fun. If you can't do that, and need fewer, longer flights, then aim futher away.

Lots of interesting enough places to go in the area:

CMI (get pizza at Papa Del's, either eat-in or bring back frozen), IGQ (great lunch, but you'll have to deal with getting around Chicago), AUW, OSH, SBM (great food at the "Final Approach"), come over to MSN for breakfast/lunch at the Jet Room, GRB is ok, head further north to Door County or the UP. Burgers at 3WO. You can go to the twin cities (several airports to choose from).

Pick a spot and let us know, maybe we'll have another informal upper-midwest POA lunch somewhere.

--david
 
I've had a few instrument students that need X/C time. Instead of doing our training at the nearest airports ~12-25 miles we just pick airports > 50nm and include a landing.

This results in an extra .5-.7 of CFI time. Since our club charges by tach time it's less than that for the plane, and that's a lot less that the flight time logged.

Joe
 
Areeda said:
I've had a few instrument students that need X/C time. Instead of doing our training at the nearest airports ~12-25 miles we just pick airports > 50nm and include a landing.

This results in an extra .5-.7 of CFI time. Since our club charges by tach time it's less than that for the plane, and that's a lot less that the flight time logged.

Joe
Click to expand...
That CFI time can bite if you do a lot of work requiring low power.
 
dparter said:
When I did my IR, I also needed to build some XC time.

I flew to a bunch of places to get lunch with friends. It also depends how much time you have -- if you can fly once a week, for 3-4 hours at a time, then a bunch of 1.5-2 hour flights to a bunch of different airports can be fun. If you can't do that, and need fewer, longer flights, then aim futher away.

Lots of interesting enough places to go in the area:

CMI (get pizza at Papa Del's, either eat-in or bring back frozen), IGQ (great lunch, but you'll have to deal with getting around Chicago), AUW, OSH, SBM (great food at the "Final Approach"), come over to MSN for breakfast/lunch at the Jet Room, GRB is ok, head further north to Door County or the UP. Burgers at 3WO. You can go to the twin cities (several airports to choose from).

Pick a spot and let us know, maybe we'll have another informal upper-midwest POA lunch somewhere.

--david
Click to expand...

Great ideas, David.

Does anyone have an opinion of Fly DBQ Cafe?
 
Just out of curiosity, does anyone agree with me that these legs should be flown at 45% power? You are building time, after all.
 
Easterner said:
You are building time, after all.
Click to expand...
If that's the kind of time you need - tracking an airway, or holding on an airway enroute; but if you need terminal holding and approach practice, it all counts towards x/c time as long as a landing occurs beyond 50 nm.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Only if you are desperate for time not experience.
Click to expand...

+1. Even though I'm at a point in my flying where I'm trying to build hours so I can get my Comm (and then CFI), I would rather do those hours in faster planes, flying them faster, to build up my skill set and get more experience. I can fly the Archer around all day at 80 kts and build hours a lot faster and cheaper, but they sure won't do me as much good experience wise as getting in the Mooney and going 140-145 kts.

This is doubly true when I need to get into my descent and landings. Even though I had my complex endorsement already from flying the Comanche around some, I'm just now getting into flying this Mooney. As Missa will tell you from observation in another plane, my first few traffic patterns were not so hot. Yesterday, it was much more comfortable, including planning my descent out of 7000 MSL to land at 500 MSL. I have no doubt that getting practice flying this plane will help immensely in preparation for planes that are hotter and more complicated.
 
Last edited:
Ted DuPuis said:
Even though I'm at a point in my flying where I'm trying to build hours so I can get my Comm (and then CFI), I would rather do those hours in faster planes, flying them faster, to build up my skill set and get more experience. I can fly the Archer around all day at 80 kts and build hours a lot faster and cheaper, but they sure won't do me as much good experience wise as getting in the Mooney and going 140-145 kts.
Click to expand...

I don't feel any differently flying 120 KIAS or 150 KIAS - in other words, the experience factor is identical.

Where most Comm pilots need experience is in slow flight -- with the stall warner blaring and the controls sloppy.

It all depends on the mission whether full throttle or 65% makes sense.

But if I'm paying for fuel, 65-75% or so gets me there 5-10 minutes later while saving 2-5 GPH.
 
dmccormack said:
I don't feel any differently flying 120 KIAS or 150 KIAS - in other words, the experience factor is identical.
Click to expand...

I think where it makes the most difference is in high workload areas. For example, if you're flying into the NYC area, even in the Archer they're switching your frequencies a good amount, and there's a lot more going on. The faster you're going, the bigger of a difference that makes.

Still, I'd rather get the time in the faster, more complex plane, even if only for those periods. Besides, I get where I'm going faster, and with a lot of the flights I do, those extra knots do make a difference. Especially when I do thinks like 900 nm in a day.

Where most Comm pilots need experience is in slow flight -- with the stall warner blaring and the controls sloppy.
Click to expand...

I don't know how good most Comm pilots are at that, but I know I try to be proficient at that. It's fun to go up and practice.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I think where it makes the most difference is in high workload areas. For example, if you're flying into the NYC area, even in the Archer they're switching your frequencies a good amount, and there's a lot more going on. The faster you're going, the bigger of a difference that makes.

Still, I'd rather get the time in the faster, more complex plane, even if only for those periods. Besides, I get where I'm going faster, and with a lot of the flights I do, those extra knots do make a difference. Especially when I do thinks like 900 nm in a day.
Click to expand...

That's true -- zipping through a variety of airspace is a higher workload.

But try 1900 NM non stop at 200 knots GS -- it's still as slow as molasses...
 
dmccormack said:
That's true -- zipping through a variety of airspace is a higher workload.

But try 1900 NM non stop at 200 knots GS -- it's still as slow as molasses...
Click to expand...

But then it gets me there faster! You still have to pay more attention to weather, terrain changes, you get upon your checkpoints faster, if you're going with VORs you need to identify and change over on them faster...

Even if the speed is not particularly rapid relatively speaking, by definition everything will happen faster at 200 kts (or 150) vs. 120. While I see your point, I'm not sure I'd agree that the experience is truly identical.
 
dmccormack said:
I don't feel any differently flying 120 KIAS or 150 KIAS - in other words, the experience factor is identical.
Click to expand...
Neither do I. But we are talking about someone who does not yet have 50 hours of cross country experience. If his or her overall experience level is similar, chances are trying to plan a descent and landing from cruise, that 30KTS will be different.

But that wasn't my point. My take on the 50 hour cross country requirement is that it's purpose is to require a bare minimum experience level for going other places and landing at unfamiliar airports where you don't simply follow the same old interstate to the downwind and turn base over the same old Wal-mart.

Obviously that's not a rule and you can bang out the 50 hours and save money by slow-flying from your home base to the same airport 50.5 NM away that you've been to again and again...if you are desperate for time not experience.
 
Last edited:
nddons said:
Great ideas, David.

Does anyone have an opinion of Fly DBQ Cafe?
Click to expand...


I have ate there several times. It's simply a little bar to get a burger or pork tend. The man who owns the cafe is hard working and very nice... The wife and I liked to stop there if we have time to kill after a flight and watch the planes come and go. I would join you but the Army has me occupied at the moment in Fort Sill, OK.

Ohh DBQ has a several approaches like a LOC BC that handed me my lunch when I first started to fly inst. airplane with a OBS.
 
drizzt76 said:
I have ate there several times. It's simply a little bar to get a burger or pork tend. The man who owns the cafe is hard working and very nice... The wife and I liked to stop there if we have time to kill after a flight and watch the planes come and go. I would join you but the Army has me occupied at the moment in Fort Sill, OK.

Ohh DBQ has a several approaches like a LOC BC that handed me my lunch when I first started to fly inst. airplane with a OBS.
Click to expand...

I flew to DBQ yesterday, but didn't take the time to go to the Cafe. (Just some Pilot Pellets (cheese crackers:)) and a Pepsi at the FBO.)

I flew a left base to 18, and those hills are deceptively high (or I misperceived them as being high) so I held off on leaving TPA until almost on final. Also, those hills seem to cause some churning of the air, even though it wasn't too strong (160 @ 8 I believe).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top