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Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by ScottM, Jun 26, 2008.
Here it is
Hey, I just got a Samsung Instinct. THAT puppy is an iPhone killer! What a great device! Watch TV, integral GPS with real time traffic, email, web browsing, radio from the web or satellite or broadcast, AND it's a great phone!!!
(I think I used up my 2009 allowance of exclamation points.)
I've been waiting for the iphone. Although I have to admit that I'd rather stay with Verizon than go to ATT.
Any "iphone killers" available through Verizon?
I have the Q9H UMTS phone on T-Mobile right now and am really loving it.
You can't buy the Q9 for T-Mobile nor does T-Mobile have UMTS so the phone is running on their Edge network but it did got to UMTS when I was Europe last week. Plus UMTS works in Japan so I will finally be able to roam there. That leave only Korea where I don't have cell coverage.
I'm not sure I'd really classify the Motorola Q as an "iPhone killer". It's not bad but is really more targeted to Blackberry users than the iPhone experience.
I had the original Moto Q and noticed if the battery ran all the way down....it died. Yup, died. Even after recharging, it would get hung at the splash screen and there was no way to perform a hard reset according to Motorola.
Since then I've been carrying around that monster Palm Treo 700P, but would like to get up to date.
One thing that the Q doesn't have that I like about the iphone is the big stinkin' screen.
I'm really going to have to decide whether I will jump ship and go to ATT. (yuck)
They were improved quite a bit. I had them deployed at my former company with no issues. I used the ActiveSync feature to synch up e-mail, calendars, contacts, and tasks from our Exchange server. No issues at all.
Battery life in roaming areas went fairly fast. Extended batteries helped there.
As roaming form one digital network to another should not affect battery life in the least. But if it was a Verizon or Sprint they could go into analog (AMPS) mode for voice only operations and that would eat batteries.
I'll be ditching Verizon next month and paying the $175 contract termination fee, AT&T and $200 iPhone here I come
Wow. Jesse has been assimilated by the Borg of Steve.
Even I'm not considering the new iPhoen a done deal. I may just get a flip-phone that supports tethering to use for another year or two.
Sorry, I didn't specify. Yes, analog roaming. My PPC6700 would still sync up in analog areas, though. It would just be at dialup speeds.
Moto Q is TERRIBLE. I just got rid of it for a Blackberry Curve. Much happier.
I'm mostly looking for a decent phone, with decent web browsing capability, and a decent mp3 player. The iPhone fits the bill.
I have a feeling it'd be hard to get the new iPhone for $200 without subscribing with AT&T, as far as the cost, my phone absolutely has to work. I'd rather not have something unofficially hacked in attempt to save a few dollars.
Was it the phone or the M$ OS?
Accept you are not getting the iPhone for $200 you are getting it for $375 since you are having to pay the penalty for canceling your Verizon service.
Aren't we suppose to support the procurement of new gadgets irrespective of cost?
If I wanted to be practical, I could talk with my wife.
>Coverage area is nearly identical to AT&T's. If you're looking for 3g capabilities then AT&T is the place to go, but not with the iPhone.
Check the ATT website for 3G coverage areas before making your purchase.
Well, my current phone is pretty much trashed. I refuse to renew my contract with Verizon--so this means that I either need to buy another phone or just eat the contract and switch.
I also need a new MP3 player. If I'm going to buy a MP3 player it will be a ipod (I've owned several ipods, two different samsungs, a sony minidisc, and a zune..I miss the days of the ipod). How much does a 8GB ipod cost? $200... It just makes sense.
I need a MP3 player. I need a phone that works. The iPhone makes the most sense for me. It's just that simple.
My biggest issue with the RIM products is their proprietary data services. Everything HAS to be routed through their network and back out to the carriers. When (not if) RIM has an outage, it's major problems.
With a Windows Mobile platform and Exchange back on the enterprise side, the only limiting factor is cell coverage.
If you don't need these services, though, it's a moot point.
That has happened several times now too!
Blackberries weren't really designed as consumer products. They were designed for government and business customers. They're strong points are constant delivery of e-mail and other enterprise sourced data to the mobile user in the field.
That requires the RIM service. It requires the RIM service if it's a single customer using a sync'd PC, a single customer using a forward mechanism from their normal e-mail or a 1,000 employee customer using the RIM Enterprise software.
If I wanted just a browser and IM, I wouldn't be looking at Blackberries.
And every time they tell us the problem is fixed, it happens again with a different cause.
My current employer uses Blackberry's enterprise software. It locks up frequently, is expensive, and users cannot fully sync the calendar (for whatever reason). And they STILL use Exchange for their e-mail/calendar stuff. I refused a Crackberry and told them to set up ActiveSync on Exchange so I could get it on my Windows Mobile phone.
"We can't. We're still on Exchange 2003. It's only available on 2007." was the reply.
Idiots. It's been out in a Service Pack for Exchange 2003 for 3 years. And these guys are a MS Gold Partner!
According to their website, you need Blackberry Internet Service for any of those features.
Uh, ANY downtime on a service used like that WORLDWIDE is unacceptable. RIM outages don't affect just BES users, either. And outages backlog all of the incoming data which causes further slowdowns once everything is up and running.
From RIM's perspective, they're golden. They make the phones, market through carriers, and control the single point of connectivity to the customer's lifeline of data. Ever watch a Crackberry addict that can't get to his/her e-mail? My wife has only had her's for a few months and is already reaching for the thing whenever it makes a sound to see what the latest e-mail is.
I have been using an 8830 for about six months. I don't understand all the technical stuff you guys are talking about. The phone, email and text work fine for me. The browser is kinda awkward and not really practical. I looked at AT&T but the coverage wasn't as good as Alltel so I decided to stay with Alltel. Apple should let all the carriers have the iphone. Does anyone know why Apple went exclusively with AT&T? You would think Apple would be able to sell a lot more phones if they opened up to all carriers.
Well first Apple did not go exclusively with AT&T. The arrangement between Apple and AT&T is only for the US market. But again it was not entirely Apple. Cellphone customers are NOT the end user. Let me say that again in another way. No one here is a cellphone customer. You are all cell phone service customers.
The cellphone manufacturers do not sell to you, they sell to cellphone carriers. So the customers are Alltel, Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile. Those customers dictate terms and carry lots of influence with the manufacturers. Apple put out their smart phone and offered it to the only two customers in the US, T-Mobile and AT&T, that could use it based on the air interface technology. The air interface for the other carriers is a much smaller market globally and the devices are driven to very small margins. Apple saw no profit in them and went with the other larger market technology.
It then came down to AT&T being able to offer the larger market and potential sales. They dictated the terms to Apple on the exclusivity deal. That is not a position that is unique. Verizon did the same thing a few years ago with the Motorola Razor.
Now that Alltel will be going away, as it has been bought by Verizon, expect a lot of changes to the CDMA market to be driven by Verizon as Sprint is shrinking their CDMA market and is now deploying WiMAX technology. Globably the only major operators left for CDMA are Sprint, Verizon/Alltel, and KDDI (Japan). There are a few smaller operators but they command no influence to any technology vendor at all when compared to Verizon and KDDI, even Sprint's voice on CDMA is limited. Sprint however carries lots of influence on WiMAX as they are the largest western hemisphere operator.
Sprint also recently announced a merger with Clearwire (data company) and rumors are abounding that the parent company of T-Mobile will buy the Sprint Nextel business and convert all of that technology to perhaps something called LTE in the next decade (which is real close BTW) or perhaps some other evolution of their GSM/HSPA technology.
Thanks for the explanation Scott. I never realized it was that involved.
You should see the politics of technology decisions! It makes sausage making look clean.
There is a bunch to it.
Even the phone you eventually do buy from the carrier is most likely sold to you for less than what it cost the carrier. This is a subsidy and is designed to be a loss leader for the carrier. in exchange you promise to stay with the carrier for a set period of time. That is why they make you pay to cancel your contract.
A really scary thought is that because of all of these subsidies of handsets most carriers have more CAPEX invested in cellphones than they do in cellular infrastructure. That model has been in place since cellular started. In the US the ONLY company moving away from that is Sprint with their WiMAX network, branded as Xohm BTW.
Unlocked phones are a tiny, tiny market compared to subsidized ones. The store front that sell unlocked phones buys them in very small lots compared to the 100's of thousands that the carriers buy.
Also when it comes to feature development carriers are very funny about what they will allow on their network. Verizon is creating a certification program that they run, that manufacturers will have to build to and only certified equipment will be allowed on their network.
GSM operators use custom provisioning on phones and can say they will not support a model. I am very happy that T-Mobile is supporting my Q9H even though they sell no Q9 models.
Nope, absolutely not true with todays market model. The iPhone was pretty hot and Apple may have sold a lot more phones than normal if they had an unlocked model. But the numbers would still be small compared to their sales to AT&T.
Wrong and it is not only Motorola that signs these deals. Samsung, LG, HTC etc all are forced by the carriers to sign them as a condition of selling phones to that carrier. If direct sales were so good the manufacturers would do so. But the truth is that the vast majority of people do not want to pay the 300-500 dollars for a cell phone. They like getting the $49 subsidized handset.
I can assure you the unlocked sales were in the noise compared to the sales to carriers.
WiMAX is not supporting UMA and UMA is not supporting WiMAX. The people that could make that work are in competition with one another so don't get to excited about the possible buy out. BTW the rumor for DT buying Sprint applies ONLY to the Sprint/Nextel (iDEn) technology. It is not for their CDMA or WiMAX networks.
What does this mean when users can install third-party apps on their phones, and use USB or PC card modems plugged into their laptops, running whatever apps they like?
Many phones are locked to stop you form doing that. The greatest concern I hear form carriers is the very scenario that you have mentioned. They are looking for ways to control the device, the content on the device and access to the network. They do not want to become just a pipe provider.
I get excited when I complete someone else.
Darn auto correcting spell checker!
Um, Nick? Ya must not have been paying attention. The 3G iPhone ships on July 11th. They stopped selling the 2G version a few weeks ago.
LOL Scott. In reality, the iPhone is amazingly durable.
A couple of weeks ago, I somehow ended up in a conversation with a guy at "Interstate Connections" which is a group that has kiosks at truck stops where they sell cell phones, satellite radios, and accessories. He asked if I would like to buy a cell phone. I whipped out the iPhone and said "Got anything that can beat this?"
His reply: "Oh yeah! Those things suck. You can't get insurance on them, which you really need because they're so fragile."
I dropped my iPhone on the floor. "Oops!" Reached over to pick it up, purposely dropped it again. "Aww man!" He had this shocked look on his face. "Gee, yeah, it's really fragile."
Then he went to #2 on their list of 10 "why not to buy an iPhone" reasons that they're required to memorize (no, I'm not kidding): The screen scratches really easily. So, I pulled out my keychain, took the sharpest key on it and "scratched" all over the screen. In reality, not a single scratch. In fact, before I had a case for it, when I dropped it I began hoping it'd hit the ground screen-first because the METAL case on the back scratched more easily than the screen!
At this point, I took pity with the poor guy (he did seem to be coming around anyway) and didn't stick around to disprove numbers 3 through 10.
Sounds like Kent is trying to break his phone so he can justify buying the new 3G version
Kent's story reminds me of the calculator wars of the 70s, when HP and TI were slugging it out for the big sales in the engineering & scientific calculator market.
Friend of mine's brother was an engineer with Arco, in Alaska on the pipeline project. TI and HP were invited to make competing proposals for a large sale of calculators (remember, these were the better part of a thousand bucks in those days).
The HP guy went first, told all about everything the calc could do, yadda yadda yadda.
Then the TI guy goes on, tells how his calculator could do everything the HP could do (and it could, pretty much), and cost a fair bit less (and it did). Smugly sits down.
HP guy stands up, picks up his HP (35, I think...), and throws it - hard - against the wall, picks it up and hands it to one of the evaluating engineers. It works (they were built stout).
TI guy acknowledges- "You have me there."
I have my HP calc from 25 years ago works great. When I used TI's they last 2-3 months before the keys started breaking. I know own 5 HP calculators.
Naah, not yet. I already have two other GPS's, and it will find me "close enough" to get what I want out of Google Maps. Also, I have a 3G data card for the laptop, and only about 10% of my data throughput has been on 3G. I'm just not in big cities long enough to make a difference. I'm also curious to see how well the new plastic backing will hold up.
All of the other features will be bestowed upon my first-gen iPhone, and that's what I'm really looking forward to. The 3G and GPS are the only things that won't be there on mine!
And I thought of another good iPhone story from a while back - With another Interstate Connections kiosk! I needed a new power cord for my Sirius radio. I took it inside and the guy started plugging cords in to find the right one. I inquired about whether they sold iPhones, and how much the cord would be. The guy just sat there blabbering on and on about how iPhones were terrible, the web access really wasn't that great or useful, blah blah blah... At which point I said "Thanks for your help, I just found a power cord for my Sirius radio online WITH MY iPHONE that costs less than half of what you were going to charge me, including shipping, and already ordered it. Thanks, and have a nice day."
Well, now I just have to tell thegeek story of how Leslie and I started going together. We were in Calculus together at U of Chicago, and were the only two in the entire class who had TI calculators. All the others were HP. I, however, DID know how to program my TI-66, and was more than willing to teach her! We still have at least one of those calculators, and it still works!
That is such a cool geek love story