iPad2 for flying -- is 3G needed?

[AggieMike88]

I know it's been asked and answered many times. Perhaps one of the forum managers can write a good article using the information and then make it a sticky post somewhere.

Starting to consider purchasing an iPad 2 for use in the cockpit.

To make the best use of ForeFlight and WingX apps and their geo referencing features, do I need the 3G model or can I do without it?

I have no need for the 3G features outside of flying as anywhere I would use the iPad for surfing, I'll have access to a WiFi point.

Thanks all!

--Mike

 

[gprellwitz]

If you want geo-referencing, you need either a 3G model (no service required) or an external GPS.

 

[jason]

As Grant said, the 3G models come with an internal GPS. It's not the internet service that's important...it's the GPS. So, you can either use a 3G model (that comes with the GPS) or buy an external...such as the bad elf.

 

[EppyGA]

The price difference between a wifi 32GB vs 3G 32GB is $129. The external GPS devices are selling for $99.

 

[jason]

The price difference between a wifi 32GB vs 3G 32GB is $129. The external GPS devices are selling for $99.

But then you either have to keep it charged (bluetooth) or have a deal hanging out the bottom of your iPad. I've knocked mine out several times in flight. Not handy.

 

[gprellwitz]

But then you either have to keep it charged (bluetooth) or have a deal hanging out the bottom of your iPad. I've knocked mine out several times in flight. Not handy.

And you have a separate device to carry with you (or keep in the plane). Agreed, not convenient.

 

[Skylane81E]

Then add the ability to use the 3G while traveling if needed and that last $29 becomes worth it IMO.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Then add the ability to use the 3G while traveling if needed and that last $29 becomes worth it IMO.

Yup. You can turn the 3G service on and off as necessary (and you do NOT need a 3G data plan for the GPS to work), and it's sure handy if you land at some podunk airport that doesn't have a weather computer.

That, and it's awfully nice to not have to have extra cables, gadgets, etc. to have to charge and/or lose.

 

[AggieMike88]

Yup. You can turn the 3G service on and off as necessary (and you do NOT need a 3G data plan for the GPS to work), and it's sure handy if you land at some podunk airport that doesn't have a weather computer.

That, and it's awfully nice to not have to have extra cables, gadgets, etc. to have to charge and/or lose.

Thanks all.

How does one turn the 3G service on and off with the data carrier? I thought you had to sign up on a contract for so many months for so many $$/mo and couldn't opt out until contract ran it's full course?

 

[Reklats]

AT&T is by month, no contract.

Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thanks all.

How does one turn the 3G service on and off with the data carrier? I thought you had to sign up on a contract for so many months for so many $$/mo and couldn't opt out until contract ran it's full course?

Nope, no contract on the iPad (at least with AT&T). You turn the cellular data service on and off in the settings app, so you never ever have to call or visit AT&T, which is a definite plus in my book!

 

[gprellwitz]

Nope, no contract on the iPad (at least with AT&T). You turn the cellular data service on and off in the settings app, so you never ever have to call or visit AT&T, which is a definite plus in my book!

Or Verizon, though I've never even actually turned mine on with Verizon.

 

[alaskaflyer]

On my ATT 3G iPad I signed up for the $14.99 plan for 250mb/month. I'm careful to use wifi when it's available and so I've been successful in staying under that limitation by quite a few mb so far.

I use my iPad on a knee board and have found that the internal GPS signal is fairly good. I'm not shooting an approach with it <g>

 

[JOhnH]

I use my iPad on a knee board and have found that the internal GPS signal is fairly good. I'm not shooting an approach with it <g>

I am curious: Do you fly a high-wing or a low-wing? I am wondering if that makes a difference in the reliability of the built-in GPS.

 

[jason]

I am curious: Do you fly a high-wing or a low-wing? I am wondering if that makes a difference in the reliability of the built-in GPS.

I was using it yesterday in the middle seat of an ERJ. It went back and forth from 5m accuracy to 100m accuracy (sometimes 200m), but it never lost the lock. That was doing 400 kt at FL320.

Jesse was sitting next to me (in the window seat) with my Bad Elf plugged into his iPad. Once it locked it never went below 10m accuracy. At one point you could visibly tell the the airplane on the two maps were off a bit. The Bad Elf was by definitely more accurate and stable...but in the end I was happy with the internal GPS and will use it as my primary. As Kent has said in another discussion. If you need that accuracy from your iPad GPS, you're probably relying on it a bit more than you should.

We'll plan on taking some screenshots on the way home to compare internal and external.

 

[Jaybird180]

Sounds more accurate than the panel mount Garmin 300XL in many of the planes I fly. I constantly have to look at the dang window just to find the airport I'm going to and it's on the right when the GPS says it's on the left.

 

[alaskaflyer]

I am curious: Do you fly a high-wing or a low-wing? I am wondering if that makes a difference in the reliability of the built-in GPS.

I was using it yesterday in the middle seat of an ERJ. It went back and forth from 5m accuracy to 100m accuracy (sometimes 200m), but it never lost the lock. That was doing 400 kt at FL320.

Jesse was sitting next to me (in the window seat) with my Bad Elf plugged into his iPad. Once it locked it never went below 10m accuracy. At one point you could visibly tell the the airplane on the two maps were off a bit. The Bad Elf was by definitely more accurate and stable...but in the end I was happy with the internal GPS and will use it as my primary.

In a Piper Archer II and in high-wing Cessnas both. That's been close to my experience too, above. Borrowing a Bad Elf increased the accuracy, but not enough to justify (IMO) the purchase or PITA factor.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I was using it yesterday in the middle seat of an ERJ. It went back and forth from 5m accuracy to 100m accuracy (sometimes 200m), but it never lost the lock. That was doing 400 kt at FL320.

Jesse was sitting next to me (in the window seat)

Uhhhh... What's wrong with this picture... Hmmmm...

Okay, what the heck were you two pilots doing on an ERJ?!?

Thanks for the comparison - Interesting. Still sounds like the iPad 2's GPS is improved from the original's if it held a lock at 400 kt, despite the wavering accuracy.

 

[Doggtyred]

I've got an iPhone 4 with the data tethering enabled. I can talk on the phone while using it as a hotspot.

I don't see any need for the 3G variant of the iPad, nor the requisite data plan when my phone serves that purpose already.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I've got an iPhone 4 with the data tethering enabled. I can talk on the phone while using it as a hotspot.

I don't see any need for the 3G variant of the iPad, nor the requisite data plan when my phone serves that purpose already.

What your setup does NOT have, however, is an internal GPS. The OP was asking about using the iPad for flying purposes, where moving-map functionality is generally desired, and the 3G-enabled hardware includes that GPS functionality without any extra dongles or devices to hook up. Many of us appreciate that simplicity in the cockpit.

One does not need a data plan through AT&T or Verizon if they have an alternative method of connecting such as you do, but it's worth purchasing the 3G iPad just for the internal GPS.

 

[jason]

I've got an iPhone 4 with the data tethering enabled. I can talk on the phone while using it as a hotspot.

I don't see any need for the 3G variant of the iPad, nor the requisite data plan when my phone serves that purpose already.

Also, it is important to note that the data plan is NOT requisite. You can turn it on if you want it...but you can keep it off if you don't. No contracts. Month-to-month if desired.

 

[jason]

Uhhhh... What's wrong with this picture... Hmmmm...

Okay, what the heck were you two pilots doing on an ERJ?!?

Thanks for the comparison - Interesting. Still sounds like the iPad 2's GPS is improved from the original's if it held a lock at 400 kt, despite the wavering accuracy.

Yeah. It is what it is. We had to get to San Francisco for a conference. But I swear to God that four hours before we took off for our connecting flight to Denver we were really damn close to hopping in the Debonair and flying the first leg ourselves. We had called about tie-downs, shuttles, etc. If we had known for sure that United could handle us showing up in Denver without having flown the first leg with them, we probably would have done it.

 

[gkainz]

I used to send consultants from Denver to every corner of the country and points between. Cheapest fares at that time originated from Colorado Springs, rather than Denver, but first and last leg was always COS-DEN and DEN-COS. Enterprising consultants would just get on and off at DEN but soon the airlines would cancel the whole ticket if the passenger didn't check in on the originating flight.

 

[denverpilot]

I should relate the story of my wife getting home from OSH last year on Delta. First time I've almost lost it and started yelling at a CSR in years.

Apparently if you book with a "companion" and the other person never checks in and you do...

Then you get to MSP and the outbound flight is "cancelled" but somehow your luggage made the transfer and shows up in DEN *that night*...

And after they give you a room voucher for some hotel they say has a shuttle but does not...

And a meal voucher that wouldn't purchase an MRE...

They wonder why their ticketing system "can't find two open seats" is unacceptable to your wife who's really ticked off at a hotel a long way from MSP that she had to catch a cab to on her own dime.

"Ma'am I've explained three times that my wife is traveling alone and there is no one with her," doesn't really seem to ever reach the brain cells of the front-line Delta folks. "The other person, who's name is X... Never checked in here in Green Bay. I know this because she's sleeping soundly in her hotel room with her husband one floor up. You're looking for ONE SEAT not two."

Somehow after four calls I managed to hit the jackpot and got a non-contractor ex-Northwest agent who had a frakkin' clue who understood that their system required her to completely cancel out the tickets where my wife and her friend were originally leaving OSH together and book a single ticket.

It only took up two and a half hours of my life on the phone standing in front of my hotel.

I simply would not accept that there wasn't a flight with ONE seat open to DEN in their entire f'ed up system. I flew enough as a non-rev to know that crap doesn't happen much in August unless 10 aircraft go down suddenly for MX.

The original offer to my wife that their system automatically spat out? MSP-ATL-DAL-DEN. Uh-huh. Yeah. Right.

Re-booked to evening direct flight MSP-DEN and then told wife to get over to the airport for the two late-morning departures to DEN and get on Standby list.

She hopped the first one and the ONLY appropriate thing that happened was the last CSR must have put some interesting notes in the comment field on the ticket because my wife said the gate agent's eyes got wide reading it, and she got bumped to 1st Class without any explanation.

Airlines today are awful.

 

[chief_red]

If you have the GDL 39 or Stratus 2 do you need to have a data cellular plan? or do either of those act as your wifi or 3G? My dad wants up to date inflight weather and I am trying to get as much info as possible for him.

Thanks!

 

[dukeblue219]

If you have the GDL 39 or Stratus 2 do you need to have a data cellular plan?

No. The ADS-B devices will transmit weather data directly to your iPad via a wifi link. You will not need a cellular data plan unless you want to get weather or other live information on the ground, or in your hotel, or whatever. Note that ADS-B reception on the ground is uncommon.

or do either of those act as your wifi or 3G? My dad wants up to date inflight weather and I am trying to get as much info as possible for him.

Well, not really sure what you mean there. Yes, they provide the weather info over a wi-fi connection they make with your iPad. But, no, they don't "act" as a 3G connection or anything, so you can't file a flight plan or check the news on the ground using it. All they do is receive the ADS-B and GPS signals (one-way).

 

[Bill Watson]

Another data point; I have and iPad 1 and go it without 3g specifically for flying. I use the bad elf external GPS and that works great but I have my own plane so it is 'permanently' velcro'd in place and has a USB connected to my EFIS for charging and bluetooth for the iPad. It turns on and off and charges without any attention from me.

I have wifi almost wherever I might be filing a plan. Since I use FF for filing and have it on my iPhone as well, I have 2 options when out of wifi coverage. I can do the plan on the iPhone or I can use tethering on the iPhone to give the iPad wifi. It's rare when I need this.

The bad elf works without fail. I don't know how the iPad internal GPS works in comparison. There may be a battery life issue that favors one over the other but I'm not sure which one.

In my situation the non-3G works great, wouldn't change it. I got my wife an iPad at the same time but her's has the 3G. Wouldn't change that either.

 

[frfly172]

With the stratus the stratus is your wi fi spot.I have the 4g and AT&T which comes in very handy to file a flight plan on fore flight.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Yet another datapoint; I got a wifi only iPad last year with the bad elf GPS and ForeFlight. It all works fine. The only places I haven't been able to easily find a wifi spot for updating charts or getting current weather and other information have been in India and northern Alaska, and even those places seem to be changing since I could get a wifi signal, I just had to look harder for it.

 

[JimNtexas]

If you want your iPad to have built in GPS you need a 3G model, but you don't need to actually have a contract with a cell phone company.

My $99 Dual gps is WAAS capable, lasts many hours, links with bluetooth so no wires, and is tiny. It's a better gps than the built in iPad GPS.

If you want inflight weather you're going to get external gps for 'free' with any external ADS-B reciever anyway, so even if your iPad has an internal GPS it won't be used anyway.

For accessing data on the ground where this is no wifi I use a separate 'MiFi' hotspot, which is a little box that receives high speed internet from a cell network work and distributes the data via a wifi hotspot. This is way better than having a cell data directly in a tablet, because you get data on up to five devices at once (cell phone, laptop, tablet, etc).

 

[gismo]

I am curious: Do you fly a high-wing or a low-wing? I am wondering if that makes a difference in the reliability of the built-in GPS.

I've used my iPad 2 in both and it generally works fine. The iPad 1 OTOH didn't seem to work very well if there was any metal between it and the sky.

 

[BillTIZ]

I've used my iPad 2 in both and it generally works fine. The iPad 1 OTOH didn't seem to work very well if there was any metal between it and the sky.

I fly high wings, there has only been once or twice that the ipad1 lost the gps signal, and once was in the Yukon Territories between Watson Lake and Whitehorse.

It has even worked fine on the internal gps sitting on the floor leaning against the fuel selector.

 

[timwinters]

Okay, I was in two electronics stores today looking at an iPad 4. I still have the first generation and it's definitely time to upgrade.

In both stores the "tekkies" told me that ALL iPads now have a GPS chip in them.

Not true?

 

[gismo]

Okay, I was in two electronics stores today looking at an iPad 4. I still have the first generation and it's definitely time to upgrade.

In both stores the "tekkies" told me that ALL iPads now have a GPS chip in them.

Not true?

Not true for iPad 2 or iPad 3 AFaIK. I haven't seen any info on the iPad 4.

 

[LDJones]

Not true for iPad 2 or iPad 3 AFaIK. I haven't seen any info on the iPad 4.

Same with the iPad 4....only the cellular-capable units have the GPS. Their thinking, as far as I can tell, was you wouldn't need GPS if you didn't have a data connection to download map segments as you needed them. They weren't thinking about people downloading the map data ahead of time.

I initially had a WiFi-only iPad2 and it was fine. But I have really enjoyed the 4 with Verizon LTE connectivity....use that connection way more than I ever expected I would. But it's cheap now on the Family Share Plan...I think it's $10 a month to add a tablet.

 

[Shawn]

I just purchased the Ipad mini and Stratus 2 and had the same questions. The Ipad connects to the Stratus via WiFi and uses the internal GPS, so 3G being activated is not "necessary". I opted to get the 3G version just in case I ever wanted it (have a Ipad 1 with 3G that I do use) and wasn't gonna activate the 3G plan. Well, after day one of a cross country flight I activated that sucker as soon as I could so I could have full feature access while sitting in the the restaurant during lunch to plan out my next leg.

Get the 3G version. Even if you don't active it or think you will, you may...and probably will, want to get the data plan in the future especially if you are using Foreflight.

 

[BillTIZ]

I just purchased the Ipad mini and Stratus 2 and had the same questions. The Ipad connects to the Stratus via WiFi and uses the internal GPS, so 3G being activated is not "necessary". I opted to get the 3G version just in case I ever wanted it (have a Ipad 1 with 3G that I do use) and wasn't gonna activate the 3G plan. Well, after day one of a cross country flight I activated that sucker as soon as I could so I could have full feature access while sitting in the the restaurant during lunch to plan out my next leg.

Get the 3G version. Even if you don't active it or think you will, you may...and probably will, want to get the data plan in the future especially if you are using Foreflight.

Depending on the software, ForeFlight? I thought if an external gps signal was received, that is what it used. Stratus should have provided gps data through the wifi connection.

I thought it used Bluetooth? But it is wifi?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Depending on the software, ForeFlight? I thought if an external gps signal was received, that is what it used. Stratus should have provided gps data through the wifi connection.

I thought it used Bluetooth? But it is wifi?

Stratus is WiFi.

 

[azure]

Well, after day one of a cross country flight I activated that sucker as soon as I could so I could have full feature access while sitting in the the restaurant during lunch to plan out my next leg.

Comes in very handy at those restaurants that either don't have WiFi or don't give customers the password.

Then the question comes, which 3G plan do you need? If you're only using it for flight planning and the like (no downloading songs, movies, etc.), you will rarely use more than 150 MB in a month. I've had the AT&T 250 MB plan for nearly 2 years and only came close to the limit once.

 

[timwinters]

If you have a DROID phone, just jailbreak it and set it up as a wifi hotspot...then you don't need to worry about a data plan for your iPad.

Also, I'm told that later model iPad allow one to tether iPhones with a data plan but I don't know this for a fact because I don't have an iPhone or a later iPad (I'm still running on the first generation).

In my case, I have absolutely no need for the 3G/4G iPad...except that it's required for the GPS chip (even though the local folks at Best Buy think they all have them these days).