IPAD Mini data Service Altitude

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JasonM

Pattern Altitude
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JM
Looking at getting an IPAD Mini with a mobile service plan. I currently have a big IPAD with only Wi-Fi. How high of altitudes are you guys getting data service?
 
JasonM said:
Looking at getting an IPAD Mini with a mobile service plan. I currently have a big IPAD with only Wi-Fi. How high of altitudes are you guys getting data service?
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I have the full-sized iPad, but I'd guess they're similar. I get pretty reliable service up to 2-3K AGL. After that it can be hit or miss.
 
LDJones said:
I have the full-sized iPad, but I'd guess they're similar. I get pretty reliable service up to 2-3K AGL. After that it can be hit or miss.
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Sounds about the same as my phone.


No idea how far away the towers I pick up are though, I've been 100+ miles away from the time zone line between mountain and central and I see my phone going back and forth on what time it thinks it is.
 
I'm good up to about 7-8K with my phone most places. I don't have a data plan for my Ipad even though it is a 3G model so I couldn't tell you if it's similar.
 
JeffDG said:
Still, 0 AGL if you don't want to violate FCC regs.
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Does that legality apply to phone only or phone AND data?...what is the difference between Ipad getting data on a GA aircraft over a 4G network vs logged onto Southwest inflight services?
 
Shawn said:
Does that legality apply to phone only or phone AND data?...what is the difference between Ipad getting data on a GA aircraft over a 4G network vs logged onto Southwest inflight services?
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The difference is the 800 MHz spectrum.

Getting data over WiFi on a SWA plane is in the 2.5 GHz part of the spectrum. Every phone, tablet, hotspot, etc., and all but one special "air card" that Sprint made specifically for an aerial application, can use the 800 MHz spectrum, with no user-controllable way to disable same. As soon as you transmit in that band from the air, you're in violation of FCC regs, and you have no way to turn just that off.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I think enough people have said F to the CC that it's pretty much a non-issue, as a practical matter.
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I agree. My Samsung S3/ATT connects reliably up to about 6K. Above that I can send text but internet connection is sporadic. It becomes very handy on descend to check for weather at your destination. At times I have been able to make phone calls at 10K.

José
 
You do not want to be seen violating FCC rules - because - while 99% of the population may do it . . . its still against the rules. You never want to give ANY LEO any opportunity to detain you - especially completely unnecessarily - its like driving off a 11pm on a Friday night with your lights off. . .

Plus - I would never - in a million years- rely on an internet cellular data plan in an airplane. Are ya nuts? If its VFR guess what - you can see where you are going - so it doesn't matter. If its not - then wtf are you doing? Seriously.

There - I said it. Its hit or miss - Murphy tells us the moment you actually need it it will go tango uniform -
 
hey i thought the same thing that i needed it you can get a Bad Elf Pro or Garmin Glo I am about to do the same and basically it gives you GPS no need for monthly service.
 
2-3K ft isn't as high as I hoped. I was hoping to have a setup that wouldn't require the stratus for weather. Looks like that's not going to happen, at least not reliably.
 
comanchepilot said:
You do not want to be seen violating FCC rules - because - while 99% of the population may do it . . . its still against the rules. You never want to give ANY LEO any opportunity to detain you - especially completely unnecessarily - its like driving off a 11pm on a Friday night with your lights off. . .

Plus - I would never - in a million years- rely on an internet cellular data plan in an airplane. Are ya nuts? If its VFR guess what - you can see where you are going - so it doesn't matter. If its not - then wtf are you doing? Seriously.

There - I said it. Its hit or miss - Murphy tells us the moment you actually need it it will go tango uniform -
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Certainly you are correct that you should not rely on cell phone data for a flight. But many of us have been trained that way before that was ever an option. And I'm sure our current generation of aspiring pilots are smart enough to realize that. I would hope so anyway. I just view the ability to get in flight information via cell service to be a nice plus.

I suspect the FCC restriction on cell phone usage in flight will quickly disappear as the carriers have already addressed the problems with doing such.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I suspect the FCC restriction on cell phone usage in flight will quickly disappear as the carriers have already addressed the problems with doing such.
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Define "quickly"?

If you define it on a geologic timescale, you may be right...The "issue" that necessitated the regulation has been solved for close to a decade now, and no signs of them changing anything yet.
 
JasonM said:
2-3K ft isn't as high as I hoped. I was hoping to have a setup that wouldn't require the stratus for weather. Looks like that's not going to happen, at least not reliably.
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Nope. I tried and tried and tried to make that happen for several years, but across several cellular devices, both Apple and others, I've come to realize that if you NEED it, you'd best not use your phone/tablet without some other device with a more reliable data pipe.

Generally, the closer you are to a major metro area or interstate, the LOWER the cut-off is going to be - You'll either be reaching too many towers at once and confusing the system, or you'll be straight above them where there is very little signal. Farther out in the boonies, being higher up is better. But there is NO altitude, NO location, and NO rule of thumb with this stuff that always works.

Get a Stratus. Once you have reliable weather on a day when you need it, you'll be glad you did.
 
marcoseddi said:
hey i thought the same thing that i needed it you can get a Bad Elf Pro or Garmin Glo I am about to do the same and basically it gives you GPS no need for monthly service.
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Correct. I've been getting GPS service just fine in light planes off the internal gps of my 3g iPad1 without any cellular activation for the 2-1/2 years I've used it. Doesn't work in airliners, though. But you do have to get the 3g/4g version in order to get the internal GPS.

What you don't get is weather, briefings, filing, etc. But I wasn't looking for any of that -- I get my weather via XM on my Garmin 510 Aera. And if you want weather/traffic on your iPad, you're a lot better of with an external ADS-B receiver than trying to go the cellular route anyway.
 
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Ron Levy said:
And if you want weather/traffic on your iPad, you're a lot better of with an external ADS-B receiver than trying to go the cellular route anyway.
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In flight, yes. On the ground, cellular works a lot better. I have both cellular service and a Stratus. I fire up the Stratus right before takeoff and I have weather all the time. Very handy.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Nope. I tried and tried and tried to make that happen for several years, but across several cellular devices, both Apple and others, I've come to realize that if you NEED it, you'd best not use your phone/tablet without some other device with a more reliable data pipe.

Generally, the closer you are to a major metro area or interstate, the LOWER the cut-off is going to be - You'll either be reaching too many towers at once and confusing the system, or you'll be straight above them where there is very little signal. Farther out in the boonies, being higher up is better. But there is NO altitude, NO location, and NO rule of thumb with this stuff that always works.

Get a Stratus. Once you have reliable weather on a day when you need it, you'll be glad you did.
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I guess I'll go ahead with the mini with data plan and get a stratus. Stinks the mobile service doesn't work better up in the air.
 
JasonM said:
I guess I'll go ahead with the mini with data plan and get a stratus. Stinks the mobile service doesn't work better up in the air.
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Well, the way the cellular system works depends on the signal NOT traveling too far, as the same frequency you're using gets re-used a couple cells down the road, in all directions. To avoid interference between the cells, the antennae are often tilted down slightly specifically to make the signals bad at a distance where you're closer to the other cell with those frequencies.

So, in the air you're not only dealing with signals that are designed with ground pounders in mind, you're also potentially dealing with being able to reach multiple cells with the same radio frequencies, which confuses the system somewhat.

If you want something that works well in the air, you've gotta bite the bullet and buy something designed to work well in the air. Since there's a lot more people on the ground than in the air, the regular cell system is never going to be designed with us in mind. :(
 
flyingcheesehead said:
In flight, yes. On the ground, cellular works a lot better. I have both cellular service and a Stratus. I fire up the Stratus right before takeoff and I have weather all the time. Very handy.
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Agreed, but I didn't thing pre-flight briefing was the issue under discussion.
 
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