Invest in a Handheld?

jesse said:
Generally any electronic device that was built with a Lithium Ion battery shuts down before the battery can be damaged. Most often this circuit is in the electronic device *and* battery. You couldn't run any decent Lithium-Ion battery down to a damaging point if you wanted to.
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Very True - But we're talking about a device with an 8-AA holder, and whether to use lithium or alkaline. In this case, the device has no clue.
 
CrashAxe said:
I was also trying to find out if I could store them in the pack on the radio or not. (I am hoping to store them in the pack on the radio so when I have comm failure the next time or end up on the ground unexpectedly, I can just pull out the radio and talk.
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Obviously, you don't want the batteries to sit in the handheld forever and potentially leak or not work when you need them.

The best solution I've ever heard is this: Put fresh batteries in the handheld. When your ANR headset's batteries are depleted, pull the batteries out of the handheld to use in the headset, and put fresh batteries into the handheld.

Credit Bill Jennings for that one, IIRC.

I suppose you could do it either by pulling all the batteries at once (the Sporty's radio uses 8 AA's most headsets use 2) and putting them in a holder in your flight bag, or maybe by rotating the batteries through the pack - Use the top 2, move the next 3 pairs up a row, and put a fresh set in the bottom row.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Very True - But we're talking about a device with an 8-AA holder, and whether to use lithium or alkaline. In this case, the device has no clue.
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Sure. But you were saying not to rundown a lithium-ion battery or else you might destroy it. I'm not aware of any rechargeable lithium batteries in the AA form? So how can we be talking about running down and damaging a rechargeable lithium battery in the 8-AA holder?
 
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jesse said:
Sure. But you were saying not to rundown a lithium-ion battery or else you might destroy it. I'm not aware of any rechargeable lithium batteries in the AA form? So how can we be talking about running down and damaging a rechargeable lithium battery in the 8-AA holder?
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They do exist but since the cell potential for Li is 3.6 volts vs 1.5 for alkline or 1.2 for NiCad, they are not intended as a replacement for "standard" AA batteries.

www.batteryjunction.com/li14reaasi38.html
 
lancefisher said:
They do exist but since the cell potential for Li is 3.6 volts vs 1.5 for alkline or 1.2 for NiCad, they are not intended as a replacement for "standard" AA batteries.

www.batteryjunction.com/li14reaasi38.html
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Hm. I could've sworn I'd seen regular AA type ones. I know they've got lithium rechargeable CRV3's now (basically a pack that's interchangeable with 2 AA's in some digital cameras).
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hm. I could've sworn I'd seen regular AA type ones. I know they've got lithium rechargeable CRV3's now (basically a pack that's interchangeable with 2 AA's in some digital cameras).
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You may have seen AA size but as Lance said, and I agree, they are 3.6Vdc cells. I have not seen a AA LiION sized cell with a votlage of around 1.5Vdc.
 
I thought energizer sold Lithium AA's. Not sure of the voltage though. They are marketed for digital cameras and such. Thought about trying some in my handheld GPS.
 
These Energizer Lithium batteries are 1.5V and the AA's were found on the shelf at Home Depot when I picked up alkaline for use in my headset and flashlights:

Current Batteries

Datasheet--Picture--Size---Voltage (nom.)----ANSI--IEC
EA91----------AA----1.5---------------15LF---FR6
EA92-------
smEA92.jpg
---AAA---1.5---------------24LF---FR031
L91--------
sml91.jpg
---AA-----1.5---------------15LF---FR6
L92--------
sml92.jpg
---AAA----1.5---------------24LF---FR03
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Find the details by going to http://data.energizer.com/SearchResult.aspx and selecting "Lithium Primary."
 
AWACSEng said:
I thought energizer sold Lithium AA's. Not sure of the voltage though. They are marketed for digital cameras and such. Thought about trying some in my handheld GPS.
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They have a lithium chemistry battery but it is not a LiION rechargeable chemistry. They are one time use batteries.
 
Yeah, I knew they weren't rechargable, but I thought they were just a throw away version of the rechargeable LiIons .
 
AWACSEng said:
Yeah, I knew they weren't rechargable, but I thought they were just a throw away version of the rechargeable LiIons .
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They are a little different. Their energy density is not as good as the LiION but their self discharge is much slower than the LiIONs which gives them a very good shelf life. So it is a trade off and a good one for many applciations where they would be stored in a device.
 
But do they last longer in the device if it is being used regularly, not just stored?
 
Yeah I'm talking about alkiline vs. lithium. I'd hope they lasted longer to warrant the 3x cost of "normal" batteries.

And to the OP, sorry for the thread hijack, just they way things go on the interwebs!
 
AWACSEng said:
Yeah I'm talking about alkiline vs. lithium. I'd hope they lasted longer to warrant the 3x cost of "normal" batteries.

And to the OP, sorry for the thread hijack, just they way things go on the interwebs!
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Just as an FYI I was burning through alkaline 9Vdc batteries in my David Clarks getting about 10 hours out of a battery. I then opted for a Li 9VDC cell that costs about $10. They last me about 6 months or 50 hours of use. Well worth it IMHO
 
smigaldi said:
Just as an FYI I was burning through alkaline 9Vdc batteries in my David Clarks getting about 10 hours out of a battery. I then opted for a Li 9VDC cell that costs about $10. They last me about 6 months or 50 hours of use. Well worth it IMHO
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Which headset model?
 
I think I'll do some trend analysis with alkaline and lithium and see if it is worth the exra aquisition cost of the lithiums.
 
Simple to do... have two identical flashlights. Two two-cell using AAs should do. Put a set of alkaline in one and lithium in the other.

For it to be worth the cost, the lithium would have to outlast the alkaline by nearly five times. I don't picture that happening. Here's the comparison just based on price without any performance from Home Depot.

8c0b0091-7728-4bdc-b09b-e1a80f91bc4f_300.jpg


Energizer Lithium AA-4 Pack Model L91SBP-4
$10.47 for the pack or $2.62 each
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ec69492e-0fb5-4aad-86bb-f9aae77be795_300.jpg


Energizer AA 20 Pack Model E91SBP20H
$11.49 for the pack or $0.57 Each
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The pack I currently have was a 36-Pack of Energizers I got at Home Depot for $13 and change. That's less than $0.40 each. It's not shown in the page I brought up in a search. They didn't show a 4-pack of Energizers but did show a 6-pack of Duracell for $4.97 or $0.83 each.

So, I'm very interested in such a test to really determine it it's worth that much to shell out the bucks for batteries. The way I go through them as an instructor for flashlights and headsets, no chance it's not even gonna compare.
 
Kenny, I think you are right. The packaging I saw for the E-gizer lithiums say they last something like 8x longer than alkilines. If they last 3-4x longer it may just be worth it to not have to swap batteries every day or every other day. I'm cheap enough that I will probably focus on the fact that the batteries are ~$.50 a piece and just stay with them.
 
AWACSEng said:
Kenny, I think you are right. The packaging I saw for the E-gizer lithiums say they last something like 8x longer than alkilines. If they last 3-4x longer it may just be worth it to not have to swap batteries every day or every other day. I'm cheap enough that I will probably focus on the fact that the batteries are ~$.50 a piece and just stay with them.
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I have no choice but to go on price. I can't afford to become a guinea pig just based on advertising claims.

I'm not saying the lithium can't be a battery that will last as long as claimed. But, the only true test is a constant operation. In my headset, I use them a LOT more than the average pilot or other consumer using flashlights. I'd have to see a good history of others willing to spend the money and seeing such results before I dig in.
 
A couple of things to think about. First LI batteries do have a higher capacity than Alkalines, so they will last longer. How much longer? Well the Energizer data site is off line for some reason so I cannot get exact numbers for you. Li batteries are safer for the environment, work over a larger temperature range and have a lower internal resistance so are able to supply more energy in devices that require 'bursty' changes to current draw (like transmitters) without using a lot of energy up in internal heating. Also the Li batteries have a longer shelf life than Alkilines. So they are more lilkely to be at full charge when you take them out of your flight bag to use.

But you have to decide if the cost differential is right for you. I have been using a 9Vdc Li battery in my headset mostly because I never seem to have the extra Alkaline in my flight bag. For some reason the battery fairy seems to always take my spare batteries out of my flight bag for her work, if you know what I mean.

Ken with your usage pattern you might get more benefit, cost and convenience, by using rechargeables.
 
AWACSEng said:
I think I'll do some trend analysis with alkaline and lithium and see if it is worth the exra aquisition cost of the lithiums.
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I found that lithium AAs last about twice as long as alkalines in my LS headset. Since the cost is close to 4x they're not worth it except to eliminate the hassle of changing batteries as often.
 
lancefisher said:
I found that lithium AAs last about twice as long as alkalines in my LS headset. Since the cost is close to 4x they're not worth it except to eliminate the hassle of changing batteries as often.
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Considering I'm swapping out at least once a week on just the headset, that's not worth it.
 
Kenny--Just buy some NiMH rechargeable. They don't hold a charge for extended periods of time but they do work great for regular predictable use.

Two of those alkaline batteries in my old digital camera would last me about 30 minutes worth of camera use. If I dropped in two of my NIMH rechargeable batteries I was set for a weekend of constant camera use. I love them.
 
Absolutely, buy the Li disposables. Ignore the cost, ignore the amount of life. The only thing you care about is shelf life in a cold environment. I've had a cell phone just about die on me before I got a helicopter in to get my poor broken body off a frozen waterfall. It's stressful. You don't want that with your radio.

I climbed Kilimanjaro just after the Li batteries came on the market. I chose them for their excellent cold temperature performance. Not only did they last in my headlamp for the whole trip, they lasted for a year afterwards. I was amazed. Cold kills batteries, but it kills Li batteries a lot less. In your environment, you want the Li. In Florida, maybe they wouldn't be worth the extra cost.

CrashAxe said:
Aye, Matey. Thats what I was talking about. I was trying to find out whether I should use Li disposables or Alkaline Disposables for best shelf life and useful life. I was also trying to find out if I could store them in the pack on the radio or not. (I am hoping to store them in the pack on the radio so when I have comm failure the next time or end up on the ground unexpectedly, I can just pull out the radio and talk.

Thanks for all the answers so far.
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Thank you, cwyckham. That answer nailed my question!
 
I finally broke down and got a handheld (Vertex Pilot III nav/com) last year before starting with the Champ, and I'm glad did. Didn't use it much for comms in flight with that plane, despite the "iffy" main radio, but did occasionally use it to monitor a second frequency and even used the VOR function a little.

Since then it's come in handy as a spotter's scanner and has gotten a lot of use with the glider club.
 
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