Interesting Video on the impossible

[dillardrg]

turn.

http://www.aerobats.com/seminar_02-07.html

 

[dmccormack]

Interesting but s l o w....

 

[nddons]

Boy, a steep turn on the verge of a stall sure seems like an invitation to a low-altitude spin to me.

 

[whifferdill]

Boy, a steep turn on the verge of a stall sure seems like an invitation to a low-altitude spin to me.

Not if your feet are on the floor, like a lot of GA pilots have them.

I remember Rod Machado getting some heat for something in one of his articles...to the effect that it's safer not using the rudder at all on the base-to-final turn than using it. I don't recall the article, and I doubt he was actually recommending this practice as good flying technique, but rather making the point that too much rudder is a lot worse than too little. It's very true. No rudder, no spin. Rolling in and out of a turn with no rudder produces a slight slip. Try spinning out of a slip - even one with full rudder. The ones I've flown won't.

 

[dillardrg]

Not if your feet are on the floor, like a lot of GA pilots have them.

I remember Rod Machado getting some heat for something in one of his articles...to the effect that it's safer not using the rudder at all on the base-to-final turn than using it. I don't recall the article, and I doubt he was actually recommending this practice as good flying technique, but rather making the point that too much rudder is a lot worse than too little. It's very true. No rudder, no spin. Rolling in and out of a turn with no rudder produces a slight slip. Try spinning out of a slip - even one with full rudder. The ones I've flown won't.

My 7ECA nor my J3 will even stall out of a slip, much less spin.

 

[whifferdill]

My 7ECA nor my J3 will even stall out of a slip, much less spin.

Same for the Pitts, but keep that to yourself. It would destroy the airplane's reputation.

 

[steingar]

My 7ECA nor my J3 will even stall out of a slip, much less spin.

My old 150 stalled rather dramatically out of a slip. I haven't found out about my Cherokee, although it does not share slow flight characteristics with most Cherokees.

 

[whifferdill]

My old 150 stalled rather dramatically out of a slip.

That's because a 150 doesn't have enough rudder to actually produce a slip.

 

[rottydaddy]

Never done these particular exercises in a 172, but none of it surprises me. About what I've always figured a 172 could do. I've thought about "what will I do if it gets quiet after I run out of runway?" many times with these planes, and decided long ago that unless I had at least 500 AGL I would not turn around. And if I did, I'd either keep my feet on the floor or make damn sure I didn't overdo it with rudder. Skidding into a stall with a wing low is bad stuff in pretty much any plane.

The one at 45 degrees of bank seems familiar... reminds me of the rope-break drill we do from 200-300 feet in the glider: nose down just enough to keep from stalling, immediate 45-degree bank into the wind (adjusting pitch to make up for the load factor's effect on stall speed), keep the string centered, roll out and land downwind.

The 2-33 loses a lot less altitude doing this, of course...

I think doing those drills (sim. rope-breaks in gliders and power-plane drills like the ones shown in the clip), could pay off in the event the "unthinkable" suggests the "impossible". Just knowing for sure what you can do with the aircraft is half the battle, right?

PP-glider applicants have to make the dreaded turn for real, at an altitude where it might not turn out so well .
Probably not such a good idea to require that sort of thing with all airplanes, but it might be a good idea to require proficiency in simulations like the ones shown, with a healthy altitude buffer, of course.