Interesting story - The November Oscar Incident

Everskyward

Everskyward

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Everskyward
I thought that this was an interesting story on a number of different levels. I had never heard about it before. I'm sure part of that is because it happened 20 years ago which is also something you might keep in mind when reading it. I tried to look further into the incident but there is really not much information other than duplicates of the same article. I did find the incident recorded here, though.
 
You're right, very interesting story. I was unaware of this. Thanks!
 
Yah, thanks for the post. Interesting read. They really hosed the poor guy over.
 
good read.

"The approach itself was a hurried affair, complicated by a host of factors. Any one or two might have been inconsequential, but taken as a full ration of sudden additions to the crew’s workload, they turned a routine approach into a flying worm can."
 
Crisis Management 101

1. Identify scapegoat
2. Sacrifice scapegoat
3. Tea and crumpets
 
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Sad story indeed.

And you might want to put some spoiler warning in your post, Jack Spectre. Fortunately I read the article before your post.
 
Of course the story has a sad ending but that's not why I posted it. I knew the ending before I read it for the first time. I thought the story had a lot of interesting aspects. The captain obviously made a number of errors and had some lapses in judgment but were they big enough for him to be charged and convicted of a crime? There is also the company culture to consider. This happened 20 years ago. How have things changed or have they? I can't speak about BA or any airline but, in general, I think people in the aviation industry are more attuned to safety than they were back then. What does anyone else think?
 
I'd like to hear the cvr, see an animation from in the cockpit.
Just how much needle deflection were they seeing?
 
Wow, long amazing story, not just about pilots but also the pressures of commercial aviation and the inherent conflict between pilots and bean counters (which I honestly believe they DO try to balance in the name of safety).

Sad ending...
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I'd like to hear the cvr, see an animation from in the cockpit.
Just how much needle deflection were they seeing?
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It would be interesting to see this type of information but I don't know where to look for it since it happened a long time ago in another country.
 
Everskyward said:
It would be interesting to see this type of information but I don't know where to look for it since it happened a long time ago in another country.
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The Air Accident Investigation Board is the U.K.'s equivalent of the NTSB. I don't see anything for the incident covered in the original post, but that's probably because they didn't hit that hotel... there are other reports about that same tail number.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/s...lcl_topmenutemplate=tags/top_publications.cfm

It was scrapped in Roswell in 1999. http://www.planesregister.com/aircraft/b747-20810.htm
 
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After doing a little more searching I found this article which only mentions this incident at the end.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1993/1993 - 0319.html

The strange thing is that the article says the incident was not even investigated by the AAIB yet the captain faced criminal charges.

article said:
In May 1991, a British Airways pilot, Capt Glen Stewart, was convicted of negligently endangering his aircraft and the people on board after a similar incident at Heathrow in November 1989. Stewart's 747-100 descended to 75ft, clearing a hotel by about 12ft. This incident also followed difficulty in getting the auto pilot to lock on to the ILS.
The AAIB did not investigate the Heathrow incident, being engaged in the Lockerbie 747 sabotage and Kegworth Boeing 737 accident investigations. Stewart, who had resigned from BA, lost his captain's qualification on type and was fined £2,000. On 30 November, 1992, Stewart committed suicide.
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Jack Spectre said:
Fixed. I feel like such a schlamazel!
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No problem! You probably aren't aware of it, since it's so little used, but there's actually a SPOILER tag.
[noparse]
This is hidden
[/noparse]
This is hidden
 
A witch hunt never ends well...:nonod:
 
smigaldi said:
Reading that article I never got the idea the pilot was without blame. He did make some mistakes and lapses in judgment.
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I think he did too, but remember that this took place within a certain context. This happened 20 years ago with a company culture in place which did not discourage this type of thing. In addition, I think that pilots are sometimes pretty mission oriented. Even without external pressure they feel the need to accomplish the job as planned. "I can do this." Then there was the company's reaction, basically tossing him to the wolves when some of their policies were to blame. Anyway I thought it was an interesting psychological study and I also enjoyed the British style of writing...
 
The British system is very unusual sometime. I recall that there was an accident where the captain was such an autocrat that when he was making a mistake that was about to lead to a crash no one spoke up to let him know as they were too afraid of him.
 
smigaldi said:
Reading that article I never got the idea the pilot was without blame. He did make some mistakes and lapses in judgment.
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Agreed. But nobody got hurt. Did the punishment fit the crime? And were all of the guilty parties punished?
 
smigaldi said:
The British system is very unusual sometime. I recall that there was an accident where the captain was such an autocrat that when he was making a mistake that was about to lead to a crash no one spoke up to let him know as they were too afraid of him.
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I thought it was like that in this country too, in the past, and someone figured out it was causing accidents. Isn't that why they started teaching CRM?
 
Everskyward said:
I thought it was like that in this country too, in the past, and someone figured out it was causing accidents. Isn't that why they started teaching CRM?
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SteveinMichigan said:
I was about to say, that sounds a lot like Tenerife.
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It may but that was not a British plane involved in Tenerife. I am referring to the Trident crash in the UK. The capt fought with people on the ground often, he would threaten and cajole his 1st and 2nd officers to the point where they would not even tell him the plane was mis-configured for take off. It crashed somewhere in the UK and I think it was London. It has been a while since I saw the report on this so I mayu have some of the facts wrong.
 
It may but that was not a British plane involved in Tenerife
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I know...just saying it sounded like Tenerife in terms of a demanding captain and a passive crew.

I am referring to the Trident crash in the UK.
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You mean the crash at Staines (BEA Flight 584 if memory serves me)?
 
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