Interesting hobby: Virtual Trips to Space

LDJones

LDJones

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
10,998
Location
Twin Cities, MN
Display Name
Jonesy
Home Airfield
KMSP / KFCM / KSGS
One of my current flight students has a very interesting hobby: Virtual Trips to Space! He sends a pair of cameras, one looking out, the other down, into near-space via a weather balloon. The balloon pops at about 20 miles up (106,000'), then he tracks its parachute return via SPOT personal emergency locators. The resulting videos, edited by his son, are very interesting! Check it out!


His website is www.bertha2.com if interested in learning more.
 
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I guess it's not the worst hobby to have. a decent sound track would have made that clip more enjoyable :) the shot at 4:14 and impact were all I really needed to see.
 
eman1200 said:
I guess it's not the worst hobby to have. a decent sound track would have made that clip more enjoyable :) the shot at 4:14 and impact were all I really needed to see.
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Huh. I liked the sound track...thought it was quite fitting. But to each their own.
 
us AAirways said:
Does he need a permit or anything to launch those?
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Nope. He contacted multiple people in the FAA to make sure there were no issues. The only requirement was that he have that silver, dual disc-like thing on it so it would show up on radar. He then scouted out a desolate area for the launch and recovery.
 
LDJones said:
Nope. He contacted multiple people in the FAA to make sure there were no issues. The only requirement was that he have that silver, dual disc-like thing on it so it would show up on radar. He then scouted out a desolate area for the launch and recovery.
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Neat video.

Not sure if the operation of that silver reflector thing was explained, but if not, it can be demonstrated by throwing a ball into the corner of a room. No matter what angle the ball comes in at, it will bounce off the walls in such a way that it eventually bounces back the direction it came. So when a radar pulse hits that thing, instead of the waves scattering in all directions - with only a small portion returning to the radar receiver - all the wave energy gets directed back the direction it came. More to it than that of course, but that is the basic idea.
 
Brought up a thought: how many of you have had near misses with party balloons? In 40 years of flying I've encountered 3 and I'm talking about right past the window a few inches or feet away out in the middle of nowhere at 3-5,000 feet. Just a chance encounter, once past you couldn't find it again to save your life.
 
Interesting. I wonder how far he has to travel for retrieval? Were the guys in the video shortly after landing part of his team or just someone who happened to see it come down?

And JOOC if he's your student, why's he launching in Washington instead of MN?
 
Silvaire said:
Brought up a thought: how many of you have had near misses with party balloons? In 40 years of flying I've encountered 3 and I'm talking about right past the window a few inches or feet away out in the middle of nowhere at 3-5,000 feet. Just a chance encounter, once past you couldn't find it again to save your life.
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I came within 100 feet of a cluster of them at 4500 feet last year.
 
MassPilot said:
I came within 100 feet of a cluster of them at 4500 feet last year.
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The local NWS facility in my area is located almost directly under the approach centerline to my home base airport and about 5 mile out. I once asked them if they ever had problems with midairs or if they paid any attention to aircraft when releasing their balloons and the answer to both was no. One of these days I'm gonna orbit the release site and watch one go up to determine how easy it would be to spot one in the air.
 
us AAirways said:
Does he need a permit or anything to launch those?
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Depends on where they are launched from and what airspace is overhead or in the predicted winds aloft ground track.

Edge of Space Sciences (www.eoss.org) has been launching around and near the Denver Class Bravo for over two decades. They follow a notification protocol with Denver Center.

They don't need any special "reflectors" for RADAR visibility nor does ZDV care much about Primary returns most of the time. That's a completely made up rule by someone who can't read the regs, apparently.
 
gismo said:
Interesting. I wonder how far he has to travel for retrieval? Were the guys in the video shortly after landing part of his team or just someone who happened to see it come down?

And JOOC if he's your student, why's he launching in Washington instead of MN?
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Sounds like it came down relatively close to where they launched. They sat at a coffee shop and watched the SPOT tracker on a laptop til it stopped moving, then they headed out to retrieve it. I think those were his crew in the video.

He has some connections to Washington state which is where they launched. But he lives 15 min north of KFCM.
 
gismo said:
The local NWS facility in my area is located almost directly under the approach centerline to my home base airport and about 5 mile out. I once asked them if they ever had problems with midairs or if they paid any attention to aircraft when releasing their balloons and the answer to both was no. One of these days I'm gonna orbit the release site and watch one go up to determine how easy it would be to spot one in the air.
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I'm talking about a single balloon from someone's daughter's birthday party going past about two feet from your window at 130 knots. It's weird because there's so much airspace out there and the chances of an encounter that close have got to be really slim. Yet I've had three of them. Maybe there are just a lot more free balloons out there than we realize. The last one, I wasn't anywhere near any town.
 
denverpilot said:
They don't need any special "reflectors" for RADAR visibility nor does ZDV care much about Primary returns most of the time. That's a completely made up rule by someone who can't read the regs, apparently.
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Radar reflection requirement is covered under Title 14 CFR Part 101. If the balloon is large enough to trigger the 101.1 applicability section, then per section 101.35:
§ 101.35 Equipment and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate an unmanned free balloon unless—
[...]
(3) The balloon envelope is equipped with a radar reflective device(s) or material that will present an echo to surface radar operating in the 200 MHz to 2700 MHz frequency range.
 
Silvaire said:
Funny how they throw the word "operate" in there. I mean, what are you gonna do once you let go of the thing?
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If you read all of 101 you'll see that free balloons over a certain size must be equipped with a mechanism that allows remote activation of a device that can terminate the flight by popping the envelope, so the operator is expected to have a way to exercise control of the start of the descent as well as the start of the ascent:
§ 101.35 Equipment and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate an unmanned free balloon unless—
(1) It is equipped with at least two payload cut-down systems or devices that operate independently of each other;
(2) At least two methods, systems, devices, or combinations thereof, that function independently of each other, are employed for terminating the flight of the balloon envelope; and
(3) The balloon envelope is equipped with a radar reflective device(s) or material that will present an echo to surface radar operating in the 200 MHz to 2700 MHz frequency range.


The operator shall activate the appropriate devices required by paragraphs (a) (1) and (2) of this section when weather conditions are less than those prescribed for operation under this subpart, or if a malfunction or any other reason makes the further operation hazardous to other air traffic or to persons and property on the surface.
 
Just spent a little time perusing his website at www.bertha2.com. Found the info on projecting the course of your balloon from launch through descent and landing based on forecast conditions at the time of launch, along with the ability to pump the projection into Google Earth and review it in 3D. Very cool, indeed! Amazing what's out there!
 
Wonder what an energy drink company could do with that technology...
 
Silvaire said:
Funny how they throw the word "operate" in there. I mean, what are you gonna do once you let go of the thing?
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EOSS builds with a manual cut-down remote triggered hot wire system that can burst the balloon, for one example.

I believe they've also been granted waivers for payloads much higher than the regs talk about. Some in recent years have had remotely dropped gliders.

It helps that they have custom winds-aloft calculation models that have accurately predicted the landing point now for at least a decade. It's really really rare for them not to be able to give ZDV a very close approximation of the entire flight prior to launch.

They've been doing this a lot longer than it's been popular on credit card commercials.

Rick is kinda proud of his software actually. ;)
 
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