Interested in pontoons eventually, what can you tell me?

[LongRoadBob]

I'm just starting my path to PPL. Long ways to go still. But I am really interested in at some point seeing about airplanes with pontoons. There are so many lakes and rivers here I am thinking it would be really nice for camping, fishing, etc. but I know nothing about them. Any level of answer from folks that know is appreciated (in other words, just answer what you want of questions, or give any tips) I'm not expecting a primer in it, just any thoughts or points. I am interested in all aspect about this such as

- What do pontoons do to CG, aerodynamics, fuel costs?

- How are landings and takeoffs different. I assume you use slightly different techniques than on a normal runway surface. How much "waterway" do you need to land, and how much to take off? I'm really curious in that if you takeoff into the wind, depending on the wind I'm thinking you are then directly cutting through waves which I would think would slow down your speed.
Also, what are the "right of way" for boats when you come in? Is there a minimum size and distance from any boats in a lake, etc.? Do you somehow let them know you are coming in for landing before final? As you can see, lots of questions here.

- What about "tiedown"? Do you bring anchors, and given non way to tie down the wings as they are in an airport, is there some extra equipment to lock the control surfaces?

Just how flexible and freeing are pontoons? I believe there are types that let you land on runways and in the water (some kind of lever system to pull the pontoons up or let them down and lock?).

How hard is it (and how different from "normal" flying) to learn?

Thanks for any info!

 

[Stewartb]

Float performance is variable depending on the plane. A Cub is very different than a Caravan. Generally speaking the floats consume a couple of hundred pounds of useful load but don't change the CG much. At taxi speeds the plane plows through the water and approaching flight speed it gets on step and planes on the top of the water. Waves are no speed concern but do hammer the plane since there is zero suspension on a floatplane. Water is hard when traveling at planing speeds. Water is also very draggy so technique is important. Floats have a sweet spot and the pilot needs to use it with all different loads and balances. Tying down is usuall done by nosing to or tailing to the beach and tying off to hold it there. Boats? Don't hit any. As for landing in shared water? Do a low pass to warn them of your intentions. Freedom? Depends where you live and where you want to land. Amphibs are popular with some guys but they add weight and diminish performance on water and land. Compromise usually does that. Floatplane care and maintenance is expensive and insurance rates are even more expensive. As for speed and fuel use? That depends what you're comparing it to. My planes are faster on floats than on tundra tires. Fuel use is a factor of time to destination. Most of my float time was to and from rivers. Flowing water has many issues lake guys never deal with. Get local instruction and learn what you need to know to operate where you live. Seaplane flying requires training and a checkride to gain a rating on your pilot cert. The "license to learn" rhetoric definitely applies to floats.

 

[James331]

Float performance is variable depending on the plane. A Cub is very different than a Caravan. Generally speaking the floats consume a couple of hundred pounds of useful load but don't change the CG much. At taxi speeds the plane plows through the water and approaching flight speed it gets on step and planes on the top of the water. Waves are no speed concern but do hammer the plane since there is zero suspension on a floatplane. Water is hard when traveling at planing speeds. Water is also very draggy so technique is important. Floats have a sweet spot and the pilot needs to use it with all different loads and balances. Tying down is usuall done by nosing to or tailing to the beach and tying off to hold it there. Boats? Don't hit any. As for landing in shared water? Do a low pass to warn them of your intentions. Freedom? Depends where you live and where you want to land. Amphibs are popular with some guys but they add weight and diminish performance on water and land. Compromise usually does that. Floatplane care and maintenance is expensive and insurance rates are even more expensive. As for speed and fuel use? That depends what you're comparing it to. My planes are faster on floats than on tundra tires. Fuel use is a factor of time to destination. Most of my float time was to and from rivers. Flowing water has many issues lake guys never deal with. Get local instruction and learn what you need to know to operate where you live. Seaplane flying requires training and a checkride to gain a rating on your pilot cert. The "license to learn" rhetoric definitely applies to floats.

That.

As for speed the amphibs on my plane took it from a just over 140kt cruise to about a 120kt cruise, also added a little weight and my floats are on the small side too. Seaplanes tend to cost a decent amount more compare to straight land planes.

As far as freedom, float flying is the most fun I've had in a plane, it really adds a whole new diamenson but also makes your decision making even more dynamic. End of the day I can just as easily fly into a class 1 airport as I can land on the river behind my house and tie my plane off in my backyard.

Go take a demo flight at a seaplane school, chances are that'll be a wrap and you'll be hooked.

 

[champ driver]

I got my rating many years ago and since then, I've only gotten to fly floats when I occasionally go with a friend who has a floatplane. I got my rating on a Cessna 185 with Aqua floats, and I also has a chance to fly a Cessna 206 on Wipline amphibs. That's the kind of floats with the retract wheels, no the floats don't go up and down, the wheels do.
It was a fun rating to get but I have no desire to buy a floatplane and pay the high insurance premiums for the privilege. I think you'll find that after getting the rating you'll have a hard time being allowed to rent a floatplane because of the high insurance requirements. Don't get me wrong, the rating is fun, but I choose to spend my money and time on other kinds of flying.

Most of your training will be on or near the water, the flying part in the air is pretty much the same as a land plane. You will learn the different types of taxiing and docking, and of course takeoffs and landing under different surface conditions.
There are local regulations concerning floatplane operation on lake and rivers, some places are prohibited or restricted, and right of way rules. Some boaters don't comply with rules, so you have to look out for them, they may drunk or just curious.

Looking on Google I found found all kinds of info on float flying, like videos such as this one.

 

[LongRoadBob]

Thanks all, excellent information! I have done some checking around online too, but the answers here are really helpful from people experienced with it, and also who see where I'm coming from as a total newbie. I really appreciate it!

 

[coloradobluesky]

You can't land on much wave at all, just chop. If the waves get high enough to serve as a launching pad back into the air, you cant land safely on it because you will break the float attachments when you smack the uphill side of the next wave. There are rocks under the water (and trees and logs) so it is hazardous to land at lakes that are unknown. Getting into docks made for boats is not always easy or even possible. Airplane floats are fragile compared to canoes or boats they need docks with clean rubber bumpers. You ALWAYS put bumpers out even one bang against a dock dents the floats noticably. Getting into beaches is hazardous too because there may be rocks under the water that you cant see.

Float planes are pretty good planes, but lousy boats. They want to weathervane and can be hard to impossible to turn from into the wind to with the wind if there is much wind at all like over 10mph or so. Docking with the wind is hazardous. Cut the engine and the plane turns into the wind! Amphibs are actually more complicated airplane that a land retractable what with both types of landings possible and backup systems etc.

If you have a local lake you can land on and keep the plane on, it works, but the plane really is better out of the water.

Having said all that, float plane flying is a lot of fun and adventure. There are many lakes where it is allowed (but not on all lakes) in some areas, hardly any in others.

Like the guy said, floats use up useful load and slow the plane down by about 15%, so there is that. The plane flies ok, but at a higher angle of attack.

Landings are about the same, but takeoffs are different. You have to get "on the step". There is this "glassy water" landing you have to learn how to do if you land on glassy water, you cant tell how high you are or when you are going to touchdown very well at all, so you come in in slowflight and nosehigh. Takes some getting used to.

It was a lot of fun, but expensive and bit hazardous. No problem at all getting the rating, that was a blast.

 

[bobmrg]

Thanks all, excellent information! I have done some checking around online too, but the answers here are really helpful from people experienced with it, and also who see where I'm coming from as a total newbie. I really appreciate it!

Be prepared to buy one, because renting is almost impossible.

Bob Gardner

 

[fiveoboy01]

Be prepared to buy one, because renting is almost impossible.

Bob Gardner

Yep. And the insurance costs are very high if you do own one.

I've got a couple hours in a seaplane, and it was a LOT of fun but I'll stick to wheels mainly.

 

[James331]

Yep. And the insurance costs are very high if you do own one.

I've got a couple hours in a seaplane, and it was a LOT of fun but I'll stick to wheels mainly.

Even worse if you get a amphib, but 100% worth it

 

[James331]

Be prepared to buy one, because renting is almost impossible.

Bob Gardner

Well there is club called BEFA in your neck of the woods, they have a 172 XP on straight floats, not a bad deal if you can deal with some "king of their own little hill" types.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Even worse if you get a amphib, but 100% worth it

Oh, definitely no argument there. Amphibious would be awesome! No way I could afford one though, much less the insurance.

If I was rich and lived on a lake, I'd definitely have a floatplane with a float slip(hehe),

 

[James331]

Leaving them docked isn't the best, ideal is having a nice soft area you can beach it, or fully pull it out.

Not amphibs, but one can do a 172 on straight floats for not too much if they are crafty and can turn a wrench.

 

[fiveoboy01]

When I said slip, I was talking about the kind where you can turn the crank and raise the boat(in this case the airplane) out of the water. Maybe slip was the wrong word.

 

[coloradobluesky]

For some inspirational photos, google "misty fjords floatplane flying" and click on images. Flying that remote is best done in with another plane. The other thing, there is a reason they call that "misty" fjords! More realistically try googling "misty fjords flying fogged".

 

[bobmrg]

Well there is club called BEFA in your neck of the woods, they have a 172 XP on straight floats, not a bad deal if you can deal with some "king of their own little hill" types.

I'm very familiar with BEFA. I'm talking about someone with a float rating on vacation who wants to take his/her family up for some sightseeing. Land pilots can do that...float pilots are almost always out of luck.

Bob