Interested in a Comanche 250?

Chip Sylverne said:
A retract for a 0 time pilot? Yeaahhhh. I bet he won't even get a quote until 100 hours TT.
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I got a quote on a 59 before I got my private. I don't recall the number they gave me.
 
Tflhndn said:
As for insurance - I already know it will be expensive (if I can get it) but since I plan to pay cash for the plane, I am willing to go without coverage on the hull - my only concern would be coverage for liability - to protect the estate, since I figure if I need that coverage I will be gone :(

I do intend to spend plenty of hours in dual before I go off on my own and I know it is not going to be cheap, but my gut says I am better buying the plane that meets my end needs - as long as I do not over reach.

Hence the question: am I over reaching?
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There's a Comanche instructor in the Roanoke, VA area, Bill Harris, listed in the Comanche Flyer. Email [email protected]. I don't know him, and don't know if he instructs in his own plane, but he's fairly close to you, and might be a good guy to talk to.
 
bartmc said:
No, not for the pilot. But it might be a tad much for the first time plane buyer. It looks like a fine bird that's priced right. But, one of these all dolled up with a newerish to mid time engine on it will sell for double or more the asking price. It's discounted for a reason, you want to fully understand what those reasons are. You'd also want an A&P who's very familiar with Comanche's to take a look at it and the logs.
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You didn't ask but here's my take, having known the owner and the representative I've referenced to three who have contacted me.
The asking price of recent was $35,000. The widow owner is not an aviator and has had to deal with Morris's death. She has no desire, nor is she capable of flying the a/c, so it's been for sale for a year or so. Morris, Tom(representing the owner's interest in the plane's sale), and I were all in the same EAA chapter.
Tom told me tonight that all the wind screens are crystal clear; Morris always kept the plane covered, was very fussy about his bird. Tom also said
that this is no beginning pilot's plane; of course, that's his opinion.

"Discounted for a reason?" I think I covered that, above. There are no hidden motives(mechanical) in the desire to sell the plane.

HR
 
EdFred said:
I got a quote on a 59 before I got my private. I don't recall the number they gave me.
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When I was at AVEMCO, we wouldn't have touched it, but that was some time ago.
 
Lawreston said:
You didn't ask but here's my take, having known the owner and the representative I've referenced to three who have contacted me.
The asking price of recent was $35,000. The widow owner is not an aviator and has had to deal with Morris's death. She has no desire, nor is she capable of flying the a/c, so it's been for sale for a year or so. Morris, Tom(representing the owner's interest in the plane's sale), and I were all in the same EAA chapter.
Tom told me tonight that all the wind screens are crystal clear; Morris always kept the plane covered, was very fussy about his bird. Tom also said
that this is no beginning pilot's plane; of course, that's his opinion.

"Discounted for a reason?" I think I covered that, above. There are no hidden motives(mechanical) in the desire to sell the plane.

HR
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Mo passed? I'm so sorry to hear that. Though we couldn't make a deal, he was a good guy to talk to. He did love that plane.

When he started to try to sell, he was north of $50k. That wasn't happening.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
A retract for a 0 time pilot? Yeaahhhh. I bet he won't even get a quote until 100 hours TT.
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Chip: When I was talking with Tom(plane's rep.) tonight I read to him the posts.
He quickly remembered your name and the intense research you did re this a/c.

HR
 
Lawreston said:
You didn't ask but here's my take, having known the owner and the representative I've referenced to three who have contacted me.
The asking price of recent was $35,000. The widow owner is not an aviator and has had to deal with Morris's death. She has no desire, nor is she capable of flying the a/c, so it's been for sale for a year or so. Morris, Tom(representing the owner's interest in the plane's sale), and I were all in the same EAA chapter.
Tom told me tonight that all the wind screens are crystal clear; Morris always kept the plane covered, was very fussy about his bird. Tom also said
that this is no beginning pilot's plane; of course, that's his opinion.

"Discounted for a reason?" I think I covered that, above. There are no hidden motives(mechanical) in the desire to sell the plane.

HR
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I was more referring to the "classic" panel with the weird radio placement, older radios and an engine that's nearing TBO. Overhaul the engine, drop a 6 pack (or even better, an Aspen or the like) in there with a 530 in a center stack and you're looking a $60K-$70K plane. It's priced right, you could buy it, spend $30,000 on it and not be upside down in it assuming everything else is how it appears.
 
Lawreston said:
Chip: When I was talking with Tom(plane's rep.) tonight I read to him the posts.
He quickly remembered your name and the intense research you did re this a/c.

HR
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Is that good or bad? :D

Does he have the RV flying? I don't recall if he had it finished, or was about to. He's a good guy too, very forthright. I was afraid I had insulted them.
 
Back off dudes! This one's mine! :yes:




The only obstacle will be getting my wife to agree :eek:
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Is that good or bad? :D

Does he have the RV flying? I don't recall if he had it finished, or was about to. He's a good guy too, very forthright. I was afraid I had insulted them.
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The RV is well and flying; he's been all over the country with it. Lately, he's been installing some upgraded avionics, though I don't remember just what. A week or so ago the Zenith arrived. He said tonight that he's yet to "pull the rivets," but he's estimating a three-year project. Below are some shots of his RV, taken April 02, 2011, same day I took the shots of the subject Comanche.

The 3rd shot: Tom had flown me back to Wiscasset and was leaving for Auburn-Lewiston. I had flown over to Brunswick in the Comanche(which went back to Auburn-Lewiston).

HR
 

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bartmc said:
..my wife INSISTED that I buy a Bonanza.... who was I to argue?
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Jackpot! :yes:



Mine would probably say the same if I earned more of those little green paper rectangles with old man heads on them.
 
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Tflhndn said:
I have already been well-briefed by my CFI and the collective brain trust at my field about buying an airplane (and then pitfalls thereof), in this case I have been eyeing 235s and 6s to meet my mission requirements.

The Comanche in the only retractable I have seen in the affordable range that can actually carry four adults. I am just worries about whether it is too much too soon...
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Early Bonanza will carry four easily. Often priced similarly. Faster, safer, better looking and easier to land by a long shot. Very early 210 can do it, but is a bit more money, and less performance.

Don't get it a hurry to buy a plane that is 300 hours from run out. By the time you get your ticket, you'll be looking at engine overhaul.

Go to Barnstormers, look in the Bonanza section for an early Bo. Nothing wrong with this Comanche, but I don't want you to focus on one thing.

If you get a complex and HP plane, and use it for your check ride, you will need to show proficiency in all aspects of that plane. Including the prop, gear, etc. Take your time, shop around.
 
bartmc said:
I was more referring to the "classic" panel with the weird radio placement, older radios and an engine that's nearing TBO. Overhaul the engine, drop a 6 pack (or even better, an Aspen or the like) in there with a 530 in a center stack and you're looking a $60K-$70K plane. It's priced right, you could buy it, spend $30,000 on it and not be upside down in it assuming everything else is how it appears.
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The math is more like this:

$28k - buy
$30k - rebuild - and that's tight for an IO-540
$25k - Aspen, 530, move things around avionics wise - it has a NICE autopilot

We're at 83k.

Does anyone doubt that the OP can find a later model injected 260/B and maybe a C Comanche for $83k with a 6 pack panel, good mid time engine, and newer airframe . . . it may not have an Aspen but I bet it will have a 530 and a good autopilot . . .

And I think it would cost a few grand more than $55k to do the avionics, engine, the hoses, the other stuff that always needs to be done at an overhaul, along with the avionics . . . . cutting the new panel alone will cost a few hundred. . .
 
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comanchepilot said:
The math is more like this:

$28k - buy
$30k - rebuild - and that's tight for an IO-540
$25k - Aspen, 530, move things around avionics wise - it has a NICE autopilot

We're at 83k.

Does anyone doubt that the OP can find a later model injected 260/B and maybe a C Comanche for $83k with a 6 pack panel, good mid time engine, and newer airframe . . . it may not have an Aspen but I bet it will have a 530 and a good autopilot . . .

And I think it would cost a few grand more than $55k to do the avionics, engine, the hoses, the other stuff that always needs to be done at an overhaul, along with the avionics . . . . cutting the new panel alone will cost a few hundred. . .
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I think you could put a 430W in and field overhaul for between $30K-$40K. It's a good price for the plane if it's an honest plane.

Buy it, fly it a few hundred hours, field overhaul the engine ~$20k. Fly it a few more years and rearrange the panel, throw in a used 430W.

Hell, the autopilot alone is about 70% of the asking price.
 
comanchepilot said:
The math is more like this:

$28k - buy
$30k - rebuild - and that's tight for an IO-540
$25k - Aspen, 530, move things around avionics wise - it has a NICE autopilot

We're at 83k.

Does anyone doubt that the OP can find a later model injected 260/B and maybe a C Comanche for $83k with a 6 pack panel, good mid time engine, and newer airframe . . . it may not have an Aspen but I bet it will have a 530 and a good autopilot . . .
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Did you know there are some folks who couldn't give a hoot about Aspens or 530s?

Can't planes fly without 6 packs?

Don't you think there's a decent chance of getting some use out of the engine before it'll require a major overhaul. Of course one should be prepared for that should it happen, but assuming it has indeed been well cared for and is currently running quite smoothly, as the OP has indicated, I'd wager that there is still some life left in her. But it is a wager after all.

If there were no poorly laid out panels, steam gauges, and high time engines left, there would be nothing for us poor schmucks to fly. :D
 
I bought my Comanche as a 10 hour student pilot and did the rest of my training in it. Insurance on it (in 2002) was $3500 a year. I now have over 3000 hours in that airplane. Insurance is $1800 per year.

The Comanche is a good airplane to buy. Parts are starting to become scarce, but they're still available. I think I paid a little over $23k to overhaul mine.
 
Harley, why don't you or Tom post it up over on the Delphi Airworthy Comanche board? Would get good exposure there too.
 
Tflhndn said:
A question for the collective brain trust. As a beginning pilot (about 5 hours into training) but planning to buy something soon. Is this too much plane for a new pilot?
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Not at all. Plenty of people have trained from scratch in comanches and bonanzas.


docmirror said:
Early Bonanza will carry four easily. Often priced similarly. Faster, safer, better looking and easier to land by a long shot.
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All true, and flying it would be fine, but an E-engine and some flavor of beech prop are not candidates for neophyte ownership and maintenance.

comanchepilot said:
The math is more like this:

$28k - buy
$30k - rebuild - and that's tight for an IO-540
$25k - Aspen, 530, move things around avionics wise - it has a NICE autopilot
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Alternative view:

$28K - buy
then fly

forget the rest of that stuff. Any used engine is a crap shoot, and we all fly behind a used engine. The rest of that stuff is fluff. Buy a good airframe, everything else is an attachment. Is this one a good airframe? I have no idea but as you say there are a lot of comanches that can be had in this price range and many of them might be a good choice.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Harley, why don't you or Tom post it up over on the Delphi Airworthy Comanche board? Would get good exposure there too.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I'll mention it to Tom. I posted earlier that I'm not the plane's agent, just an aware person; but Tom told me that the contacts I've put in his direction in the last year have resulted in more interested parties than any of the paid advertising that's been published.

HR
 
I don't disagree Jeff with Buy and Fly, I just pointing out the cost of what someone else recommended . . . . it never pays to buy and fix and replace - it pays to buy and fly.

Buy the Airplane the way you want it - not because you see a great project at cheap price.

It NEVER pays off to do avionics - and you get about 75 cents on the dollar for engine and prop.. . .
 
...says the guy wanting to swap a TC engine. :D
 
comanchepilot said:
I don't disagree Jeff with Buy and Fly, I just pointing out the cost of what someone else recommended . . . . it never pays to buy and fix and replace - it pays to buy and fly.

Buy the Airplane the way you want it - not because you see a great project at cheap price.

It NEVER pays off to do avionics - and you get about 75 cents on the dollar for engine and prop.. . .
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I didn't suggest it, I was just pointing out that similar planes dolled up sell for $70K or so, and he might want to understand why that one wasn't a $70K plane. An engine with 85% of it's life already lived would be hard to "forget" especially when the bill comes due.
 
Here's an answer to the engine question if it can be trusted:

LYCOMING O-540-A1C5 • $8,500 • FOR SALE • S/N L-468-40 TT: 4349.7 SMOH: 179.2 All Accessories Firewall Forward Pics Available • Contact Travis Deason - DEASON AIRCRAFT SERVICE located Overland Park, KS USA • Telephone: 913-755-4107

No affiliation, but it looks like a way to get a lower time engine without busting the bank. Call it $12k all installed and tested and now you've spent $40k for a plane/engine that should go many years.
 
comanchepilot said:
The math is more like this:

$28k - buy
$30k - rebuild - and that's tight for an IO-540
$25k - Aspen, 530, move things around avionics wise - it has a NICE autopilot

We're at 83k.

Does anyone doubt that the OP can find a later model injected 260/B and maybe a C Comanche for $83k with a 6 pack panel, good mid time engine, and newer airframe . . . it may not have an Aspen but I bet it will have a 530 and a good autopilot . . .

And I think it would cost a few grand more than $55k to do the avionics, engine, the hoses, the other stuff that always needs to be done at an overhaul, along with the avionics . . . . cutting the new panel alone will cost a few hundred. . .
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Or he could buy a decent J model Mooney ;)

I'm looking at Aspens for my Mooneh right now. My wallet would be a lot lighter but I'm envisioning the 2 panel aspen and liking what I'm seeing.
 
PS cutting a new panel is a couple grand if you have it done professionally.
 
DavidWhite said:
PS cutting a new panel is a couple grand if you have it done professionally.
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or a couple hundred if you do it yourself. Here's my first foray into panels with my cherokee 180 when I was in college. It was a 2-weekend job. I viewed it as a safety requirement since I was flying twin cessnas with standard-layout panels every night. However, if it was the only plane I was flying, I could get used to the scan with the shotgun panel.
 

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Chip Sylverne said:
I did a lot of research on that aircraft last year about this time. I made an offer just about where he's at now. That's a good, fair price for that bird.
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Has the plane flown regularly in the time since ?
 
And after the reconfiguration that can be tricky based on old panel design and possible airframe structure issues, you's gotta re-wire, re-plumb, re-light, re-equip CB's, rheostats, silk-screening, placards, compass corrections, etc. Doable but not like changing a battery. BTDT.

bartmc said:
More to it than that, you have to build a radio tray in the old comanche's it's not just rearranging the circles.
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weilke said:
Has the plane flown regularly in the time since ?
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I can't answer that question. The a&p was flying it pretty regularly when I was interested, and one of the posts above mentioned 80 hours till the tail ad is due, so it must have flown at least 20 hours since October or November. Not sure exactly when that ad came out off the top of my head.

Just checked, October 22, 2012. I tossed my notes, so I cant tell you the tt or tsmoh as of last March or April. IIRC, the compressions were very good, oil changed at regular 50 hours intervals. The a/p and no ad prop was a big plus. My impression was it was a nice, solid airframe, not a pristine show bird but well cared for, all paperwork in order, no long periods out of annual, clean logs, no history of major repairs. I have no in- person impression because it wasn't local and I didn't go to see the bird because my offer was considerably below the asking at the time, about where it is now, and Mo rejected it out of hand.
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
i can't answer that question. The a&p was flying it when I was interested, and one of the posts above mentioned 80 hours till the tail ad is due, so it must have flown at least 20 hours since October or November. Not sure exactly when that ad came out off the top of my head.
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October 22 was the start date for the 100 hours.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Just checked, October 22, 2012. I tossed my notes, so I cant tell you the tt or tsmoh as of last March or April. IIRC, the compressions were very good, oil changed at regular 50 hours intervals. The a/p and no ad prop was a big plus. My impression was it was a nice, solid airframe, not a pristine show bird but well cared for, all paperwork in order, no long periods out of annual, clean logs, no history of major repairs. I have no in- person impression because it wasn't local and I didn't go to see the bird because my offer was considerably below the asking at the time, about where it is now, and Mo rejected it out of hand.
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How much is compliance with the tail AD ? Is that the one where the stabilator horn fitting has to be either tested or replaced ?

This is an early model, they had issues with the fitting a while back, may well have already received the updated PA30 version of the part.
 
weilke said:
How much is compliance with the tail AD ? Is that the one where the stabilator horn fitting has to be either tested or replaced ?

This is an early model, they had issues with the fitting a while back, may well have already received the updated PA30 version of the part.
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Can't just be tested. The whole assembly has to be taken apart, visually inspected on the inside, and put back together or replaced, and repeated every 500 hours or 5 years whichever comes first.
 
EdFred said:
Can't just be tested. The whole assembly has to be taken apart, visually inspected on the inside, and put back together or replaced, and repeated every 500 hours or 5 years whichever comes first.
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Or replace the parts with new and be good for ten years. My plan is to milk the 100 hrs and hope for an amoc in the meantime. Very few horns have been found cracked, and research by ICS has shown the root cause may have been overtorquing of the bolts at the factory. My gut is that more damage will be done by continually r&ring than inspecting once and leaving well enough alone.

Rumor has it compliance cost is around $3k plus parts.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Or replace the parts with new and be good for ten years. My plan is to milk the 100 hrs and hope for an amoc in the meantime. Very few horns have been found cracked, and research by ICS has shown the root cause may have been overtorquing of the bolts at the factory. My gut is that more damage will be done by continually r&ring than inspecting once and leaving well enough alone.

Rumor has it compliance cost is around $3k plus parts.
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I may just go with an owner supplied part. (Australian replacement.)
 
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