Intercept vs Join

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

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This is going to sound like a stupid question, but I searched the ATC 7110.65 bible and didn't find any guidance or standard phraseology on this.

Is there any difference between these two clearances? I've heard both on LiveATC.net and real life:

"fly heading 120 to join localizer runway 15"

"fly heading 120 to intercept localizer runway 15"

While the first clearance obviously does include the directive to turn onto and track the localizer course when you intercept the localizer course, does the latter??

Intercept is not, by definition, the same as join. Intercept is where two lines or planes cross.

(Of course, if I had confusion, I'd ask for clarification from ATC... but what is the concensus here?)
 
TangoWhiskey said:
This is going to sound like a stupid question, but I searched the ATC 7110.65 bible and didn't find any guidance or standard phraseology on this.

Is there any difference between these two clearances? I've heard both on LiveATC.net and real life:

"fly heading 120 to join localizer runway 15"

"fly heading 120 to intercept localizer runway 15"

While the first clearance obviously does include the directive to turn onto and track the localizer course when you intercept the localizer course, does the latter??

Intercept is not, by definition, the same as join. Intercept is where two lines or planes cross.

(Of course, if I had confusion, I'd ask for clarification from ATC... but what is the concensus here?)
Click to expand...

No difference. Note that when 7110.65 discusses vectoring for approaches it consistently used "intercept".
 
Cool, thanks guys! That's what I thought, glad to have it reinforced. Didn't want to "assume" wrong... that would be bad!
 
a good # of pilots have indicated they think 'join the loc' means begin the descent ie down the g/s, I still get arguments about that one. Now that your question is resolved Troy, I figured we were free to run off on a tangent!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
a good # of pilots have indicated they think 'join the loc' means begin the descent ie down the g/s,
Click to expand...
David's point is a good one -- just being told to join the localizer and track it inbound does not mean you're "cleared for the approach," and you must maintain your last assigned altitude until you hear those magic words. That said, if you don't hear them in a timely manner (like, say, the GS needle starting to move down), query the controller.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
a good # of pilots have indicated they think 'join the loc' means begin the descent ie down the g/s, I still get arguments about that one. Now that your question is resolved Troy, I figured we were free to run off on a tangent!
Click to expand...
Ask them what they do when the get told to join the localizer on a LOC only approach. Hard ot descend down the GS when there is not one.

On any approach getting a vector or clearance to join the final course is not the clearance to start your descent. You need to here 'cleared for the approach...', then you can start to follow the procedure.
 
here is another I've run into less commonly - you are approaching the terminal area:

a) "Join the arrival"
b) "Descend via the arrival"
 
Ron Levy said:
David's point is a good one -- just being told to join the localizer and track it inbound does not mean you're "cleared for the approach," and you must maintain your last assigned altitude until you hear those magic words. That said, if you don't hear them in a timely manner (like, say, the GS needle starting to move down), query the controller.
Click to expand...

Of course, "intercept the localizer" doesn't mean you're cleared for the approach either.
 
kkoran said:
Of course, "intercept the localizer" doesn't mean you're cleared for the approach either.
Click to expand...

...and if you're within a minute of the next fix on the approach (either IAF or intermediate), it's worth a query to the controller to confirm approach clearance. It's rare, but possible, for the controller to forget they didn't issue it.
 
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