Insurance and logging question (argh)

[Bill]

I have a buddy at work who just bought a peach of a Skyhawk, really nice plane, and he wants to go flying Sunday. The catch, he's not legal.

He had heart problems a few years back, and just went to the AME, who assures him he will get his medical. It is at Ok city now for review. He bought the plane (right plane, right price, had to buy now) gambling his medical will come though.

Therefore, I would be acting PIC, but he has me on his insurance only as named pilot. As I understand it, if the plane got dinged, the insurance co would pay him as I was named pilot, but they then could come after me for the ca$h. To be fully protected, I should be named insured, correct?

Also, I never really paid attention to those long logging threads, but now I wonder. If the insurance works out and we do fly, how can each of us log?

 

[Ed Guthrie]

I have a buddy at work who just bought a peach of a Skyhawk, really nice plane, and he wants to go flying Sunday. The catch, he's not legal.

He had heart problems a few years back, and just went to the AME, who assures him he will get his medical. It is at Ok city now for review. He bought the plane (right plane, right price, had to buy now) gambling his medical will come though.

Therefore, I would be acting PIC, but he has me on his insurance only as named pilot. As I understand it, if the plane got dinged, the insurance co would pay him as I was named pilot, but they then could come after me for the ca$h. To be fully protected, I should be named insured, correct?

Correct. The insurance company will provide legal protection to the owner and financial protection to the owner up to the policy limit. The company will not provide legal protection for you, and the company may come after you for any costs they incur protecting the owner. As a named insured (not a named pilot) you move into policy owner status. The company provides your legal protection and protects you financially up to the policy limit. The down side to this is that you and the aircraft owner effectively split the policy's liability coverage maximum. For example, if somehow the plaintiff(s) nail you each for $1M and the policy limit is $1M, then the insurance company will pay $500k on behalf of each of you and leave you each to make up your $500k personal shortfall.

My advice (as an owner) would be for you to purchase your own non-owned aircraft policy. If you own an aircraft you may already have this coverage through your aircraft insurance (I do).

Also, I never really paid attention to those long logging threads, but now I wonder. If the insurance works out and we do fly, how can each of us log?

Assuming there is no safety pilot flying going on then you each log that time that you are the sole manipulator of the controls. If you act as safety pilot while he flies under the hood then you both log PIC (there is no debate here since you are the only legal PIC qualified pilot). He can't act as safety pilot (no medical) so that question need not be answered. See FAR 61.51 for details.

 

[Bill]

My advice (as an owner) would be for you to purchase your own non-owned aircraft policy. If you own an aircraft you may already have this coverage through your aircraft insurance (I do).

As a club member, we are covered as named insured when operating club aircraft, so I haven't gone out and purchased any rental or non-owned insurance. And, at something like $800+, I'd have to fly his plane a decent amount for that to make sense.

I don't want to cheese the fellow off, but it's looking more like a no-fly. Glad I kept my reservation for the club plane for the same time slot

 

[Ed Guthrie]

As a club member, we are covered as named insured when operating club aircraft, so I haven't gone out and purchased any rental or non-owned insurance. And, at something like $800+, I'd have to fly his plane a decent amount for that to make sense.

I don't want to cheese the fellow off, but it's looking more like a no-fly. Glad I kept my reservation for the club plane for the same time slot

Before you abandon the idea you might ask the owner if he is willing to make you a named insured. Just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean he won't--the circumstances are quite different. There are some implications of a named insured that I, as an owner, am not willing to tolerate. The first is the liability coverage dilution I mentioned in the previous post. The other is that the named insured(s) move into payout approval/disapproval status. IOW, lets assume that I put you on my policy as a named insured. I am out flying on my own while you are sitting on the beach in the Bahamas. The plane's nose gear collapses and the repair costs hit $45k. The insurance will cover all of this, but as a named insured you must sign each and every policy related item. Shop to be chosen. Parts to be replaced or overhauled. Payout checks. Everything. There is no way I would allow a disinterested third party that kind of say so over my aircraft and my financial well being--especially when I paid for the policy.

However, as I said, the owner in your situation is in a totally different spot. He can't fly without you. He may be quite a bit more flexible than I would be in my current position. Heck, if I was in his position you'd probably be a named insured by the end of business today.

 

[Bill]

Heck, if I was in his position you'd probably be a named insured by the end of business today.

Well, he didn't get his insurance worked out, and I ain't putting my neck on the line. He's trying to call an instructor to fly with Sunday, and I'll take the club plane out for a nice little XC!