Instrument training...

[Mahoneymik]

I'm just starting on my instrument rating, and I'm wondering what's the best way to go about it? For my private, I took the Cessna "Cleared for take off" system, and I was wondering if any instrument pilots can recommend Cessnas Instrument system. If not, what's the best way to learn as much as possible on my own, on the ground, so that when I get in the plane with my instructor, I already understand the concepts (as much as possible). Thanks for any help.

 

[KennyFlys]

I used the Cessna CBI by King but that's really just laying the ground work. There are many more resources for you to read.

1. Instrument Rating-Airplane PTS
2. FAR/AIM (Read AIM Chapter 5 numerous times along with Ch 1-4 until you understand them; FAR 91.167-91.187 in particular) *
3. FAA's Instrument Flying Handbook @
4. FAA's Instrument Procedures Handbook @
5. Gleim Instrument Study Guide
6. NACO Chart Guide #
7. Review weather knowledge from PPL but go into greater detail (Also, it helps tremendously to be able to interpret the raw data and not a translation) *
8. AC 91-74 Flight in Icing #
9. AC 00-45 Weather Services #
10. AC 00-06 Weather Information #

# Available Online
* Should Have Now
@ Available Online but much Easier with the Actual Book

There are many more resources but these will get you the required knowledge for passing the instrument rating written exam and the practical test. If money isn't an issue or you have a friend with one, the Jeppesen Instrument/Commercial book is a great resource with secondary explanations. You'll find tons of resources on the web. Heck, you may even get a question answered by posting it here on the board!

If you have an approved simulator available, I'd strongly suggest using it all you can. It's going to be cheaper and in most sims available to general aviation training, if you learn to put the sim where you want it and maintain accuracy, you're going to do a lot better at it in the airplane. You can apply up to twenty hours to your ticket but all of it is loggable experience.

But, whatever you do... do not let this be the end of your learning once you get the rating. And, never ever let published currency standards be your own standard for flight in IMC. If one does not maintain a significant level of instrument proficiency, they might as well limit themselves strictly to VMC.

Best of Luck in your pursuit!

 

[Bill]

I'm just starting on my instrument rating, and I'm wondering what's the best way to go about it?

For my IR, I kept it much more simple, and didn't buy everything under the sun, but this is what I DID use:

King IR CD-rom
Instrument flying handbook
FAR/AIM
PTS

And that is all for study materials. Then, I just flew my butt off with my II.

 

[grattonja]

I used the "Cleared for Approach" Cessna system, and feel that I received a good training regimen. I think how good your CFI is is more important than the quality of the book/CDs, but on the whole the Cessna stuff does a good job.

YMMV of course.

Jim G

 

[Mahoneymik]

Thank you guys for responding. I'm a new PoA member, and this is my first post. I see I'll be returning frequently - this is a great board.
Thanks for the sugestions. It's expensive, but I think I'll go for the Cessna ground school course. They didn't let me down with my private. Any suggestions on an approved simulator???
Thanks again.

 

[tomcat]

I have used Microsoft flight sim (the last version, not the new hog) combined with a CH products USB yoke and no pedals (overrated) with great success.

 

[Mahoneymik]

Is MSFS approved for logging flight time?

 

[Areeda]

Is MSFS approved for logging flight time?

No you can't log the time in MSFS but it is very good for proficiency in your scan and procedures and increasing your situational awareness.

To log simulator (any class) time the specific simulator installation must be approved and an authorized instructor must be present.

One piece of advice that comes up over and over is to only practice things you've already been taught in a simulator. Do not try to teach yourself. If you develop bad habits (easy to do in a sim) they are difficult to break.

Joe

ps. I like Kenny's list of books, but then again I am a reader. They all contain very valuable information. See the front of the PTS for its list of references.

 

[infotango]

Is MSFS approved for logging flight time?

No.

I've been using, on the recommendation of his board, the Dugan Instrument Flying book, which is the text for his PIC course. That and the FAR-AIM. KISS.

I'm going part 61, so I think that I only need 15 hours with the II, the rest I'm doing with a friend of mine, who in addition to being a good pilot, also already has his IR, so he has a pretty good idea of what I am doing.
In my dream world I'd take a PIC course with my dream Bonanza, but unfortunately money is an issue, and so I've cut as many corners as possible, hopefully without sacrificing too much quality.

When the weather warms up my II promises that we will be almost strictly in actual, so that should be a pretty good baptismal by fire. He's a five digit hour ex-airline pilot, so he knows his stuff.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Is MSFS approved for logging flight time?

NO.

Is there a Frasca simulator around your area?

Also, be sure to start out with your CFII regardless of what airplane/sim you are flying, and develop a good scan from the start. That way your CFII won't have to undo your bad habits (time=$$$) once you get in the plane.

 

[Mahoneymik]

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thanks again for the advice.

You're welcome, and welcome to the board!

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

For my IR, I kept it much more simple, and didn't buy everything under the sun, but this is what I DID use:

King IR CD-rom
Instrument flying handbook
FAR/AIM
PTS

And that is all for study materials. Then, I just flew my butt off with my II.

I bought the King "Everything" IR materials, and I am glad I did. The King DVD written test prep course was just that, what you need to pass the FAA written test. Not nearly a complete ground school for instrument flying. The "Everything" package has a lot of other materials that fill in the gaps and provide more of the why, and not just the right answers for the test. Don't get me wrong, the test prep course did a good job of test prep, and I passed the first time with a great score when I took the FAA written after just going through the test-prep course - and a lot of people don't. But don't be satified with just getting past the test.

 

[tonycondon]

John and Martha put me to sleep faster than anything else.

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

John and Martha put me to sleep faster than anything else.

Amen to that. You have to ignore the teaching style and pay attention to the information. For some things I found it helps to set the playback speed up. Don't know if you can do it with the CD version but it worked for the DVD. Presentation speed was enough faster to keep my attention, and still get everything.

 

[Bill]

I passed the first time with a great score when I took the FAA written after just going through the test-prep course - and a lot of people don't. But don't be satified with just getting past the test.

That is why I augmented the King with the IFHB and FAR/AIM. Lots of real good stuff in those two books!!!

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

That is why I augmented the King with the IFHB and FAR/AIM. Lots of real good stuff in those two books!!!

Oops. The suggestion not to be satisfied with just getting past the test was really addressed to the original post, asking what to get for training materials. Not a criticism of your list, other than to comment on the need for more than just the King IR test prep course. Sorry that was not clear. I agree about the books. After all the DVD presentations from John and Martha, I still found a lot of the really important information in the books and the FAR/AIM, even though the FAA did not ask about most of it.

I guess I look at the FAA written like most other tests. It is not exhaustive of the information you need to know, but is intended to test a representative sample of the information you should have been taught. The problem with courses that "teach to the test" is that they teach only what will be asked on the test. So the "representative sample" becomes 100% of the material you are presented with. Hence, do not be satisfied with just getting past the test.

 

[ejensen]

This one worked for me:

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

This one worked for me:

After I paid a lot more for the King course I saw this one:

http://www.americanflyers.net/faaknowledgetest/ipass.htm

You do not get the DVD's at home, but for $50 you get them all online. Seems like a cheap way to get past the FAA test, but again it is not the whole answer to getting adequate training. It includes the instructor endorsement at the end of the course so you can take the written, just as the King course does. I have no idea if the instruction is better than the King course or not. Has anyone used this? If it gets you through the test it has got to be worth the $50.

 

[skyflyer8]

This one worked for me:

Hahaha! Funny pic, tellin it like it is!

 

[TangoWhiskey]

After I paid a lot more for the King course I saw this one:

http://www.americanflyers.net/faaknowledgetest/ipass.htm

You do not get the DVD's at home, but for $50 you get them all online. Seems like a cheap way to get past the FAA test, but again it is not the whole answer to getting adequate training. It includes the instructor endorsement at the end of the course so you can take the written, just as the King course does. I have no idea if the instruction is better than the King course or not. Has anyone used this? If it gets you through the test it has got to be worth the $50.

Good price, but I was surprised to find a glaring error in the first 5 minutes of the lesson 1 sample video. Anybody else see it? This is a direct quote from the instructor's speech to the class:

Now, remember that the guiding principle behind flying under VFR is the "see-and-avoid" concept. If you intend to fly under Instrument Flight Rules, naturally the "see-and-avoid" concept cannot work very well in this kind of environment. Therefore, under Instrument Flight Rules, ATC will provide separation between VFR aircraft and IFR aircraft.

 

[Dwight B. Van Zanen]

Troy,

Yes, that looks like a problem to me too. Perhaps the instruction covers the circumstances in more detail elsewhere. ATC must be relied on for IFR separation from other IFR traffic in IMC when under ATC control; but IFR separation from VFR traffic should be in VMC, so "see and avoid" would still be the responsibility of both pilots. The VFR plane may not even have a transponder or radio. And out here in the west we have a lot of Class G airspace where you can be IFR in IMC, and not even be under ATC control; so traffic avoidance is based on a big sky and few pilots who will fly very far under those conditions on purpose, beyond a departure under marginal conditions.

I would still like to hear from someone who went through the whole course, and can comment on the whole package. I found some problems with the King course too, that I sent in to them for correction. Unfortunate this is in their sample video, though. Not a good sign.

I could not get the video to run for me, but the "textbook" link starts with this:

"FLIGHT RULES​

Two sets of rules govern the operation of aircraft. Federal Aviation Regulation (14 CFR) Part 91 defines

Visual Flight Rules (VFR) and Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). The guiding principle for VFR flight is "see and avoid". Since the "see and avoid" principle cannot apply in IMC, the FAA's Air Traffic Control (ATC) system assumes responsibility for separation of air traffic operating under IFR. Do not confuse the flight rules under which you are operating with existing meteorological conditions. If the weather is at or above the minimums established for VFR flight, Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC), you may fly under Visual or Instrument Flight Rules. Whenever Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) exist you must fly under Instrument Flight Rules. The ATC system provides separation only between known aircraft. The system operates as if Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) exist at all times, even though the actual weather might allow visual flight. This means when you are on an Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flight in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) you are responsible to see and avoid other aircraft." ​

That sounds better than what you quoted.​