instructing married couples?

Jeanie

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
2,239
Location
Alpine, TX
Display Name

Display name:
Jeanie
Hi Ya'll,

I had a young newly married couple call yesterday about flight instruction for both of them. Strikes me as to lend itself to a very interesting communication dynamic.
Any thoughts, guidance, warnings regarding your experiences w/ same?

Cheers,
Jeanie
 
Hi Ya'll,

I had a young newly married couple call yesterday about flight instruction for both of them. Strikes me as to lend itself to a very interesting communication dynamic.
Any thoughts, guidance, warnings regarding your experiences w/ same?

Cheers,
Jeanie
I have had young married and soon to be married couples in my scuba classes. I often find that one is enthusiastic and the other is going along for the ride to make their partner happy. This can lead to over dependence upon one partner by the other or even fighting. I have seen it come to physical violence one time. I now always split up couple into different buddy teams.

I would think for flight training keeping them separate would also be of value. If one is flying and the other is in the plane there is going to be pressure to perform and it is also likely that the non-flying partner is going to try and teach along with you. This will annoy you and cause your job to be more difficult. This happens in scuba too.
 
Well, it's a C152 that we'll be using so I won't have to worry about the extra dual given from the peanut gallery while flying. But I am wondering how I'm going to help them understand to honor each others boundaries regarding their individual learning at home and on the ground so to speak. Ya'know it's their life but I really do think that some explanation towards that "don't help" idea should be offered diplomatically- if possible.
 
I hear what Scott said, but I think it might be a great opportunity for you. I've had a colleague go through flight training at around the same time as I was getting my ASEL (different airport as well as different CFI), and while we never disagreed on techniques, etc., I'd shake my head sometimes and he may have done the same with me. (i.e. his instructor let him land the plane for the first time somewhere around his 5th lesson. I landed mine on my first flight, and never needed the CFI to take the controls.)

I think having you as a common CFI would eliminate that, as well as allow them to progress in this journey somewhat together. Which would be a good thing for a newly married couple.
 
I had one married couple make it to solo, then they went off to Antarctica (Operation Deepfreeze), hopefully it wasn't anything I did.

We did discuss the definition of PIC and sharing duties in the cockpit earlier than usual. There was some why did the other get to do this earlier but if anything it helped me develop more objective, defensible standards for moving from one lesson to the next.

Joe
 
Last edited:
I think it depends on the individuals. I have never tried instructing a couple who were starting out together. However I have had students where one spouse was pushing the other spouse to learn. Those situations never seemed to turn out well. Flying is a little bit too difficult, mentally, if you don't buy into it yourself.
 
Hubby and I started together. We went to the same school. There were times we flew with the same instructor, one in front and the other in back, then reverse. We found it very helpful to compare notes and bounce ideas off one another. Later, we went to another school and we had different instructors. That was a poor choice. At the time we had been married over 10 years, so that might make a difference.

It always infuriates me when people assume that married folks cannot work well together. Hubby and I were working together before we got married and it worked well, but the company didn't want employees to date, so when they found out we were seeing each other they fired me. We both moved on and got hired by another firm in New York, both working at the same company doing essentially similar work. We got married. I was moved into a manager position in the same department where Hubby was working and we got along just fine, thank you. Later, we both moved into jobs with different companies until about 5 years ago when I applied for a job at the same company where Hubby was working. I was hired and took the office right next to his. On the same hallway was another married couple and there were a pair of brothers in the next hallway, all of us working for the same manager. We were all one happy family.

There are lots of prejudices and the supposition that married folks cannot get along at work or in training is one of them.:incazzato:
 
Husband was a perpetual student in his past. He started again with me, but we were flying a c152, so weren't together. Knowing how we are, this worked well as we had lots of talk about our respective lessons. I finished up, he's the passenger......and it still works well... I have the permanent left seat. :D
 
I have also worked with several spouses of pilots. One even got her license and is threatening to come back for an IR when she is back in the country. This worked well. Hubby got checked out in the right seat and I didn't have a problem with her sitting left seat for most of their flights as long as he had the controls when they were close to the ground. I had worked with him to get his US PP and instrument ratings so he knew what I teach.

Scott's observation that one is enthusiastic and the other just sucking up is probably common but I've seen worse reasons for taking lessons.
 
Strikes me as to lend itself to a very interesting communication dynamic.
This is key. The communication dynamic. It's different when you communicate to two at the same time.

As Scott said, there could be underlying currents of trouble between them, and you will see that if it bubbles up, but don't start out assuming it. Expect and treat them as if they want to learn to fly - like you would any 2 students.

And having 2 students going thru at the same pace is a great way to instruct.

I worked in a program that did exactly that. You had paired students, and it was great. You cover some material, then ask them some questions directly, and then have them bounce off each other,.."So, Student 2, whaddaya think about Student 1's answer?"

After you get them teamed up, they carry themselves thru it. You have to keep them together. If One is slow, Two will learn to help One up, and so on.
 
There are lots of prejudices and the supposition that married folks cannot get along at work or in training is one of them.:incazzato:
I have that prejudice mainly because it didn't work for me. I wasn't married but I lived with, worked with, owned a business with, and flew with someone back a number of years ago. Something had to give and it was the business. Then we ended up working for competing companies which had its own challenges. Maybe it's because I was young (in my 20s), or too competitive, but since then I try to keep my work and personal life separate. I read the recent AOPA article on John and Martha King and am in awe of the fact that they can run a business together, fly together and have a successful marriage.
 
Good, maybe they'll chime in :yesnod:
Leslie's in San Diego this week busy with work. Maybe I'll do.

Our flight training started with my getting her an intro flight for her birthday, after she turned down a chance to jump out of what was once a perfectly good airplane. I followed along a little on her ground school, learning the phonetic alphabet, the pattern legs, and a few other things. I also took a single intro flight myself, not too long after she decided that she really liked it (sometime during her intro flight!)

She had a number of instructors as they cycled off to the airlines, and then she had to postpone for a couple of years because she started working out of town. Once she came back into town, she knew it would be a bit of a restart. That's where the "training together" part starts. I work for a community college, and one of the benefits at the time was free classes for employees and a minimal charge for spouses. So she signed up for a ground class as a refresher, and I figured that since it was free and I could share her books, I'd do it too.

They suggested that learning the book portion would be easier if we were learning the in airplane portion simultaneously. So Leslie and I went around to local airports, seeing what was available for flight training. We eventually walked into the flight school at Clow Airport, liked the instructor who happened to be riding the couch when we walked in, and made his day. By the time we were done, Brian was known affectionately as the "Prellwitz Flight *****".

As training progressed, we would occasionally have one of us sit in the back as the other flew. Given W&B constraints, this was probably less frequent for us than with other couples. We did find it helpful, though we needed to take care that the person in back was an observer rather than an active participant.

We even worked out our long cross countries so that we could meet up en route. She flew the clockwise route (10NM short of a commercial cross country, because many of her planned cross country flights were weathered out), and I flew a somewhat shorter clockwise route. We met up briefly in Litchfield, IL.

As we reached completion of our certificates, it was made clear to Brian that, since Leslie started her training before I did, she would likewise complete the training before me. Yes, there was an element of competition to it, and that has continued on throughout our flying experiences. We flipped a coin to determine who would get their instrument ticket first.

During our training, we were able to do a number of dinner or even overnight trips with both of us and the instructor. These were generally done in the latter stages of our training, and were done in more complex aircraft (Cessna 182, 310) and for fun purposes, e.g. a weekend at Mackinac Island or dinner at LakeLawn Resort. It helps keep the interest of both parties and shows the benefits of having a pilot certificate (and sometimes the desirability of having an instrument ticket.)

Some practical thoughts:
- Teach CRM from the get-go. They're frequently gong to be flying together, and this is somewhere that we can learn from the airlines. The Kings had an article or video on that a while back, where they dealt with some of those issues. They made a point that whenever the PNF (Pilot Not Flying) had a suggestion/criticism/comment of the pilot flying, they would preface it with the word "Captain" to acknowledge that the other was the PIC.

- Encourage study together, and have them teach one another. The best way to learn something is to teach it yourself, and as long as there's a qualified instructor monitoring what they're communicating, this is effective.

Others who may have input on this:
Diana & Tom Richards
Sharon & Greg Bockelman
Martha & John King
Diane and Rod Machado
Peggy and Don?

(After reading Aunt Peggy's response, I should note that Leslie and I had been married over 15 years when she started lessons.)
 
Last edited:
Thanks, everybody for your thoughts etc. And, thank you Grant for your story........
 
As Peggy said, not all spousal relationships are bad.

Wife and I work better together. Went to undergrad together. Grad school together. If she were at all interested in flying - and she is absolutely not - I'd have had no concerns teaming up for lessons. I'd probably have learned quicker that way.

Soooooooo -- it depends. You may want to quiz said couple on their ability to work together, and explain why it is important to you.
 
Hubby and I started together. We went to the same school. There were times we flew with the same instructor, one in front and the other in back, then reverse. We found it very helpful to compare notes and bounce ideas off one another. Later, we went to another school and we had different instructors. That was a poor choice. At the time we had been married over 10 years, so that might make a difference.

It always infuriates me when people assume that married folks cannot work well together. Hubby and I were working together before we got married and it worked well, but the company didn't want employees to date, so when they found out we were seeing each other they fired me. We both moved on and got hired by another firm in New York, both working at the same company doing essentially similar work. We got married. I was moved into a manager position in the same department where Hubby was working and we got along just fine, thank you. Later, we both moved into jobs with different companies until about 5 years ago when I applied for a job at the same company where Hubby was working. I was hired and took the office right next to his. On the same hallway was another married couple and there were a pair of brothers in the next hallway, all of us working for the same manager. We were all one happy family.

There are lots of prejudices and the supposition that married folks cannot get along at work or in training is one of them.:incazzato:

And all that's great. My wife and I work well together (mostly!) as well. I will say as an employer who's had this very discussion in the last few years that the biggest concern we had (as a small, <20 person) company was that if we had to dismiss 1/2 of a couple that we would lose the other 1/2 as well. That was just too big a risk for us. In a larger company, it wouldn't concern me. So it wasn't about how the couple got along in the work environment at all.

As to the original question of teaching, I can only say that depends. And why it depends has been more than adequately discussed.

John
 
I taught one couple. She was the eager one and a natural pilot. He was Latin and macho. They came to the airport and took turns flying the C150 on the same day, so they progressed about at the same rate. We had good times. I let him solo first (and she understood and was OK with that) but after that she progressed ahead of him and his work schedule didn't allow him to keep pace. He finished his private while she went on to commercial, IFR, flight instructor, twin and more.
I'd think each couple would be individual.
One sister and her husband fly together. She has taken lessons but decided not to worry about her license. She does join in the adventure with map work, radio changes, etc. He is a dominant personality. Same with another sister and her husband - she has pretty much decided to not learn because she doesn't think he could stand to let her fly if he was in the plane. She doesn't do much co-piloting. Whatever works.
 
My wife and I started our private training at the same time. One hour with each back to back with the same instructor in a C150. Due to differences in work schedule and vacation time available I was able to finish a couple of months ahead of her. I don't think there was any overt competition between us during training. I was thrilled she was interested enough to make the commitment and she viewed it as the responsible thing to do if she was going to be in the plane with me. Prior to solo we spent the hour and half drive to and from the airport going over the previous lesson and reviewing for the written so it gave us some "quality time" together on a regular basis. She has better hands on flying technique and I have an easier time with flight planning and avigation so I feel we tend to complement each other in the activity. In our experience it seemed to work because we identified our individual strengths and weaknesses as training progressed and that helped us focus on getting the most out of the training that would help us progress individually. I think it also provided us a shared interest that helped keep us communicating as our marriage progressed (we were 2 years into it when we started training) as we otherwise each came from somewhat different backgrounds.

This may not work for all newlyweds, but for us it certainly made life more interesting and enjoyable. Having a competent instructor didn't hurt, either.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top