Installing fire extinguisher and bracket - FAA guidance?

alaskaflyer

alaskaflyer

Final Approach
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
7,544
Location
Smith Valley, Nevada
Display Name
Display name:
Alaskaflyer
Anyone know of a specific FAA advisory circular or other guidance on installing small portable fire extinguishers in part 91 AC?
 
Read Chapter 1 of the AC 34.13-2A Pay attention to Para 3 (d)
 
Tom-D said:
Read Chapter 1 of the AC 34.13-2A Pay attention to Para 3 (d)
Click to expand...

Tom, I couldn't get that advisory circular to come up on the FAA website :frown3:

I did find this though, for anyone else who might be curious. It provides some limited guidance on installation in small aircraft as well as some information on extinguisher types.

I bought a FAA approved small halon model and was just curious if there was either guidance or regulation on how/where it would be installed.
 
Tom-D said:
Read Chapter 1 of the AC 34.13-2A Pay attention to Para 3 (d)
Click to expand...

AC43.13-2A is obsolete (has been since 3/3/08), the correct reference is AC43.13-2B.

And according to AC43.13-2B there is no reference to fire extinguishers.
 
Last edited:
Rotor&Wing said:
Buy the small type with clip on mounting, therefore no logbook entry required.
Click to expand...

I've got mine in a seatback pocket but someday I'd like to actually mount one in a bracket. And I'd want to make sure that it would stay put in with at least a 10g force (10x the extinguisher's weight) in the forward, upward, and downward directions lest it become a missile in a crash. I think FAR 23 would only require the mounting to be strong enough to handle the ultimate load for the category (1.5x3.8g for normal and 1.5x4.4 for utility).
 
My current FE is mounted and was that way when I bought the plane. The extinguisher itself is very old and no longer feels as though the stuff inside of it is moving around. So I bought a new one from Sporty's. But I think all I have to do is unsnap the old one and snap in the new one without any logbook entry. Is that right?
 
smigaldi said:
My current FE is mounted and was that way when I bought the plane. The extinguisher itself is very old and no longer feels as though the stuff inside of it is moving around. So I bought a new one from Sporty's. But I think all I have to do is unsnap the old one and snap in the new one without any logbook entry. Is that right?
Click to expand...
How could it not be, because that's just what we do when we secure luggage.
 
smigaldi said:
My current FE is mounted and was that way when I bought the plane. The extinguisher itself is very old and no longer feels as though the stuff inside of it is moving around. So I bought a new one from Sporty's. But I think all I have to do is unsnap the old one and snap in the new one without any logbook entry. Is that right?
Click to expand...

Is the fire extinguisher listed on a logbook entry or weight and balance? That may have a bearing on what you may have to do to stay legal.
 
smigaldi said:
My current FE is mounted and was that way when I bought the plane. The extinguisher itself is very old and no longer feels as though the stuff inside of it is moving around. So I bought a new one from Sporty's. But I think all I have to do is unsnap the old one and snap in the new one without any logbook entry. Is that right?
Click to expand...

The proper way to do that is to make a logbook entry that you removed the old fire extinguisher and replaced it with a new one. If it has a part number and/or serial number place that in the entry as well.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
AC43.13-2A is obsolete (has been since 3/3/08), the correct reference is AC43.13-2B.

And according to AC43.13-2B there is no reference to fire extinguishers.
Click to expand...

Chapter 1 should tell you all you need to know about mounting anything

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/11e144125d63fe548625740a00731b4a/$FILE/Advisory%20Circular%2043_13-2B.pdf
 
Hello Gentlemen , I checked with my FSDO rep that likes to check up on my operation from time to time. Just freindly vists! I asked this question before. Answer AC20-42 :aureola: Check it out gives plain jane info on FE and mounting them for your application . Hopes this Helps you out.

Kind Regards,

"Dan,The insde man"
 
Dmendoza said:
Hello Gentlemen , I checked with my FSDO rep that likes to check up on my operation from time to time. Just freindly vists! I asked this question before. Answer AC20-42 :aureola: Check it out gives plain jane info on FE and mounting them for your application . Hopes this Helps you out.

Kind Regards,

"Dan,The insde man"
Click to expand...
Good find, Dan. Doesn't say anything about logging, but ...
7h. Location and Mounting of Hand Fire Extinguishers in Small Engine Single and Multiengine Aircraft.
(1) Locate hand fire extinguishers so that they are easily accessible to the flightcrew and the passengers.
(2) Hand fire extinguishers should not be allowed to lie loose on shelves or seats. Fire extinguishers and mountinq brackets should be properly mounted to the airframe structure capable of withstanding the inertia forces required by the FAR Sections listed in paragraph 7g(3)(a) of this AC.
Click to expand...
7g(3) Mount hand fire extinguishers so that they are readily available.
If they are not visible in their mounted position, a placard (with letters at least 3/8-inch high) may be used to indicate their location.
(a) Due to the weight of hand fire extinguishers, the aircraft structure and extinguisher mounting brackets should be capable of withstanding the inertia forces required in Sections 23.561, 25.561, 27.561, and 29.561 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, with the hand fire extinguisher installed.
(b) The weight of the hand fire extinguisher and its mounting bracket should be added to the center of gravity computed.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, I found that AC in my second post but didn't link it very well for posterity.

The language >seems< to say that with a typical handheld extinguisher and bracket you have a choice of "installing" a fire extinguisher through your A&P/IA with a 337, logbook entry, and recalculated W&B, or simply adding it in your computed weight & balance for each flight. At least I think so.
 
As a follow up to installing the hand held fire extinguisher permanently in the cabin this would be consider a minor alteration in most cases. Anything that is installed permanent will require a record entry in accordance with FAR 43.9. Permanent means glued, riveted, bolted, or screwed to the airframe. Tom is right about AC 43.13-2B it gives the required information on how to install for g loading.

In addition your equipment list must be updated to reflect the install by part number and station number/arm. Your equipment list is where you weight and balance comes from. On the fire bottle there addition inspection that must be accomplished read the label some say every 30-day. If this is the case inspect it and make a record entry per FAR 43.9.

Keep in mind if its weight is more than 1 pound a new weight and balance must be performed. Reference for this is in AC 43.13-1b Chapter 10 under weight and balance.

“Weight Change is any change of one pound or less for aircraft whose weight empty is less than 5,000 pounds; two pounds or less for aircraft whose weight empty is more than 5,000 and 50,000 pounds; and five pounds or less for aircraft whose weight empty is more than 50,000 pounds.”


Additional References.
CAR 3.73 Empty weight. The empty weight and corresponding center of gravity location shall include all fixed ballast, the unusable fuel supply (see § 3.437), undrainable oil, full engine coolant, and hydraulic fluid. The weight and location of items of equipment installed when the airplane is weighed shall be noted in the Airplane Flight Manual.

CFR Sec. 23.29 Empty weight and corresponding center of gravity.
(a) The empty weight and corresponding center of gravity must be determined by weighing the airplane with--
(b) The condition of the airplane at the time of determining empty weight must be one that is well defined and can be easily repeated. (This is where the equipment list comes in).

Just one man opinion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top