Installing AV8TOR for Cessna 150 panel

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taters

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Taters
I know the Av8tor (Bendix King) will panel mount but does anyone know if it can be hooked up to the aircraft power system like the Garmin 396/496 etc?
 
It draws power from the cigar lighter socket fine (although, a rental 150M was the only aircraft where it failed to work for me: perhaps a blown fuse or the socket and plug are not entirely compatible; works great in Cherokees anyhow). One way or the other it ought to be fine in a 12V airplane, but obviously a paperwork has to be done.
 
I had a 496 "hard wired" into a bonanza once and was just curious if this could be done with this unit...I could do the cig plug though if I had to and neatly "hide" the wires etc....and thankfully mine works...
 
taters said:
I had a 496 "hard wired" into a bonanza once and was just curious if this could be done with this unit...I could do the cig plug though if I had to and neatly "hide" the wires etc....and thankfully mine works...
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I don't see why it couldn't be done with just a logbook entry.
 
dmccormack said:
If it's not a permanent install what paperwork is needed?
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If it's wired into the aircraft electrical power system, it's at least a minor alteration to the aircraft and will require at least a logbook entry over a mechanic's signature. Whether it's a major or minor alteration seems to be a matter of some debate between various individual FSDO Airworthiness Inspectors, with less than explicit written guidance from AFS-300 on point, so make sure you ask an Airworthiness Inspector at your local FSDO before you do it or you could find yourself in the middle of an FAA food fight. If the FAA has issued anything recently to clearly and definitively settle this matter, I'm sure R&W will have something to say about this post, but otherwise, asking permission may be better choice than asking forgiveness.
 
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Tom-D said:
If it draws power from the Cig plug it is not considered to be "Installed" no entry required.

but the Cessna cig plugs have an AD to disconnect them, that is why many won't work, from that plug.
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Interesting. Cig plug was dead on the 150 I trained in this summer and owner didn't know why. Perhaps this explains it. It appeared to be wired up, but we didn't delve too deeply into it. Are there no alternate means of compliance?
 
Ron Levy said:
If it's wired into the aircraft electrical power system, it's at least a minor alteration to the aircraft and will require at least a logbook entry over a mechanic's signature. Whether it's a major or minor alteration seems to be a matter of some debate between various individual FSDO Airworthiness Inspectors, with less than explicit written guidance from AFS-300 on point, so make sure you ask an Airworthiness Inspector at your local FSDO before you do it or you could find yourself in the middle of an FAA food fight. If the FAA has issued anything recently to clearly and definitively settle this matter, I'm sure R&W will have something to say about this post, but otherwise, asking permission may be better choice than asking forgiveness.
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That's a big "IF"

when it is connected in a manor that can be connected and disconnected without tools it is not a modification.
For example, using alligator clips to connect to the bus and ground there is no modification to the aircraft. Plus the Yoke clamps are also no modification and thus need no paper.
 
LDJones said:
Interesting. Cig plug was dead on the 150 I trained in this summer and owner didn't know why. Perhaps this explains it. It appeared to be wired up, but we didn't delve too deeply into it. Are there no alternate means of compliance?
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Yes there is an AMOC, read the AD.
 
Tom-D said:
That's a big "IF"
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Not very big, since that's what the OP proposed.

when it is connected in a manor that can be connected and disconnected without tools it is not a modification.
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You can connect it in a manor any way you want, but if you connect it in an airplane it's gotta by by the FAA's rules.
For example, using alligator clips to connect to the bus and ground there is no modification to the aircraft.
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Alligator clips? YGBSM! It might be legal, but I can't see it being smart or safe -- too much chance of something ending up touching something else and then "Oooh, that smell -- can you smell that smell?"
 
Ron Levy said:
If it's wired into the aircraft electrical power system, it's at least a minor alteration to the aircraft and will require at least a logbook entry over a mechanic's signature. Whether it's a major or minor alteration seems to be a matter of some debate between various individual FSDO Airworthiness Inspectors, with less than explicit written guidance from AFS-300 on point, so make sure you ask an Airworthiness Inspector at your local FSDO before you do it or you could find yourself in the middle of an FAA food fight. If the FAA has issued anything recently to clearly and definitively settle this matter, I'm sure R&W will have something to say about this post, but otherwise, asking permission may be better choice than asking forgiveness.
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Plugging into a lighter outlet is not "wired in."
 
Tom-D said:
That's a big "IF"

when it is connected in a manner that can be connected and disconnected without tools it is not a modification.
For example, using alligator clips to connect to the bus and ground there is no modification to the aircraft. Plus the Yoke clamps are also no modification and thus need no paper.
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Yep, this.
 
Yes I would like the unit to dock into the panel and be wired into the electrical bus. Field approval at most is what I was thinking...I just wondered if anyone had the Av8tor unit installed in this manner ...Garmin 496 etc..you can get a special wire that you can bus in and leave the cig lighter alone.
 
As an A&P I would install it using a CB and make a logbook entry. I consider connecting a wire or a CB to a DC bus bar as an elementary procedure.

The A&P doing the installation determines whether it's a major or minor installation.

14 CFR 1.1

Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications—
(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or
(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.


Minor alteration means an alteration other than a major alteration.


 
Ron Levy said:
Not very big, since that's what the OP proposed.

You can connect it in a manor any way you want, but if you connect it in an airplane it's gotta by by the FAA's rules.

No argument there, it's a matter of interpretation of the rules

Alligator clips? YGBSM! It might be legal, but I can't see it being smart or safe -- too much chance of something ending up touching something else and then "Oooh, that smell -- can you smell that smell?"
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Yes Alligator clips, seeing as the main bus on most early Cessnas is an open copper strip soldered to the C/B or fuses, it is pretty simple to slip an alligator clip on it and run your equipment.

real world aviation you see this stuff :) not that it is good, simply a example in this case.

but remember IAW the 43-A the only major modification to an electrical circuit is the main charging circuit. all other additions are a minor alteration, simply entered maintenance records as maintenance. IAW AC43-9C
 
Ron Levy said:
How about using an alligator clip to make that connection?
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Think of it this way Ron, if you were the A&P-IA doing the annual, and the clip was not there, what would be the discrepancy?

But if you saw a soldered in C/B with a circuit to a device, how would you tell if it was a major alteration or a minor one?
 
Rotor&Wing said:
As an A&P I would install it using a CB and make a logbook entry. I consider connecting a wire or a CB to a DC bus bar as an elementary procedure.

The A&P doing the installation determines whether it's a major or minor installation.

Most people forget that, but there are rules to follow to be a legal installation

14 CFR 1.1

Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications—
(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or
(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.


Minor alteration means an alteration other than a major alteration.
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The old what's a minor mod discussion. :)
 
Tom-D said:
real world aviation you see this stuff :) not that it is good, simply a example in this case.
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AMEN,

had to tell a Cherokee owner that I didn't care what he wired in, it wasn't going to be hooked up when I returned it after annual and if he removed it before giving me the keys I wouldn't have to bill him for the removal:lol:
 
LDJones said:
Interesting. Cig plug was dead on the 150 I trained in this summer and owner didn't know why. Perhaps this explains it. It appeared to be wired up, but we didn't delve too deeply into it. Are there no alternate means of compliance?
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It just needs an inline fues and it can be reconnected. The originals were right off the hot buss with no protection.

My FSDO considers pantel docks and the tiny electrical draw of a GPS to be a minor alteration.

Install take off antennas from a late model garmin cessna that upgraded to a GL69A (the bases pf the late model antennas have an integrated gps antenna) And you have a very nice and easily installed vfr gps.
 
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