Installed Equipment knowledge for check ride

[inav8r]

The club C-172M that I intend to use for my private pilot check ride has an ancient Loran installed in it. During my 60 or so hours of training since I joined the club I've always been under the impression that it didn't work and was just left in the aircraft because it was cheaper to leave it than remove it. Last night during my oral prep, I asked my instructor if it worked and he said that last he knew it worked, but no one's used it in a couple of years since they got the first yoke mounted GPS installed in it.

While we were flying last night he turned it on and low and behold it worked.... Am I going to be required to actually demonstrate use of that piece of navigation equipment on my check ride?

 

[Ed Guthrie]

The club C-172M that I intend to use for my private pilot check ride has an ancient Loran installed in it....Am I going to be required to actually demonstrate use of that piece of navigation equipment on my check ride?

Highly, highly doubtful, and if the DE should ask it would be extremely doubtful s/he would ask for anything more than how to enter a waypoint, confirm the waypoint, go direct, and confirm correct operation. Off the deep end of improbable question would be for the DE to ask for rudimentary understanding of the operating principle (master/slave transmitters and signal propagation timing). Ask your instructor how to enter a waypoint (destination), confirm an entered waypoint, follow the box to the waypoint, and also to show you how to determine if the box is navigating correctly versus lost signal. Beyond those four points I don't see the DE venturing into the void. I don't think the DE will go there, but armed with the knowledge you will not be living in fear of the question.

 

[BillG]

For my instrument checkride my ADF wasn't working. Really, it wasn't! Very intermittent. So I pulled it out, placarded it, and taped a picture of an IFR approach approved GPS in its place (which I never ended up getting unfortunately). My DE raised his eyebrows but didn't make me attempt an IFR approach using the picture of a GPS...

 

[gismo]

While we were flying last night he turned it on and low and behold it worked.... Am I going to be required to actually demonstrate use of that piece of navigation equipment on my check ride?

Seems unlikely. If you want to be sure, call the DE and ask.

 

[poadeleted20]

The book answer is yes, you may be asked questions on and to demonstrate proper use of any installed, operable equipment in the plane. Make sure you study the book on it. The manuals for the older Apollo LORAN's (probably the most common ones left out there) are available on Garmin's web site. Go to http://www.garmin.com/support/userManual.jsp and on the pull-downs select "Aviation," "Discontinued," and the series LORAN you have.

What are the chances you'll be asked? Hard to say, so best to be prepared. However, for a Private check, it's unlikely you'd be asked to do more in flight than turn it on and navigate to a desired destination with it while properly interpreting the information presented. On the oral portion, you might well be asked about how LORAN works, for which the basic info in the AIM should suffice. See http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/Chap1/aim0101.html#1-1-15 for that info, and have that page tabbed in your FAR/AIM book for ready reference if needed.

And if you call attention to this, that's an invitation to ask about it. Better to lay low and he probably won't even notice that it's there until you're in the airplane, which will save oral Q&A on the subject.

 

[Henning]

The club C-172M that I intend to use for my private pilot check ride has an ancient Loran installed in it. During my 60 or so hours of training since I joined the club I've always been under the impression that it didn't work and was just left in the aircraft because it was cheaper to leave it than remove it. Last night during my oral prep, I asked my instructor if it worked and he said that last he knew it worked, but no one's used it in a couple of years since they got the first yoke mounted GPS installed in it.

While we were flying last night he turned it on and low and behold it worked.... Am I going to be required to actually demonstrate use of that piece of navigation equipment on my check ride?

Get out the P-touch and make an INOP label for it and pull the breaker/fuse. He won't use it then. If not plaquarded or removed, It is wide open for questions and use.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Get out the P-touch and make an INOP label for it and pull the breaker/fuse. He won't use it then. If not plaquarded or removed, It is wide open for questions and use.

And religiously comply with every nuance of 91.213, carefully dot every "i" and cross every "t", because if you pull this one it is a sure thing that if the DE gets even a whiff of doubt as to the veracity of the placard and breaker he will reset the breaker, test the unit, and announce, "Gee, seems to work now. By the way, do you suppose you could demonstrate how to fly direct "FLNKD"?"

It is much easier to learn the rudimentary tasks, read the AIM functional description, and then rest easy that in all probability the topic will not be raised.

 

[Ryan Ferguson]

It is definitely a fair-game item and I'd say there is more than a slim chance that you will be asked about the unit. You may even be required to demonstrate its use. Had an old student of mine go through this recently in his own (newly purchased) personal airplane under similar circumstances - he elected to simply take the hour or so necessary to get comfortable activating the unit, navigating direct to a waypoint, and deriving time/speed/distance data.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

And religiously comply with every nuance of 91.213, carefully dot every "i" and cross every "t", because if you pull this one it is a sure thing that if the DE gets even a whiff of doubt as to the veracity of the placard and breaker he will reset the breaker, test the unit, and announce, "Gee, seems to work now. By the way, do you suppose you could demonstrate how to fly direct "FLNKD"?"

"Mr. DE, I was told reception was intermittent, so they placarded it INOP. An antenna problem, perhaps?"

 

[poadeleted3]

Highly, highly doubtful, and if the DE should ask it would be extremely doubtful s/he would ask for anything more than how to enter a waypoint, confirm the waypoint, go direct, and confirm correct operation. Off the deep end of improbable question would be for the DE to ask for rudimentary understanding of the operating principle (master/slave transmitters and signal propagation timing). Ask your instructor how to enter a waypoint (destination), confirm an entered waypoint, follow the box to the waypoint, and also to show you how to determine if the box is navigating correctly versus lost signal. Beyond those four points I don't see the DE venturing into the void. I don't think the DE will go there, but armed with the knowledge you will not be living in fear of the question.

I was actually asked to explain how LORAN and GPS worked, but I think he was either playing stump the dummy by then or just looking to fill any gaps in my knowledge. It was near the end of my oral and I'd gone through it without having to crack a book, as it got more and more complex. I don't think my ticket was on the line by that point, though. We were more discussing various subjects. Still, it was nice to be able to at least describe the basics.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

"Mr. DE, I was told reception was intermittent, so they placarded it INOP. An antenna problem, perhaps?"

"Okay, so then why don't you show me how you would confirm proper signal reception & operation?"

Face it folks, trying to duck a legitimate topic/question via regulatory shenanigans is a recipe for disaster. Much easier to learn the rudimentary skills and move on to another task.

 

[inav8r]

Face it folks, trying to duck a legitimate topic/question via regulatory shenanigans is a recipe for disaster. Much easier to learn the rudimentary skills and move on to another task.

I'm inclined to agree with Ed. Even though it's ancient technology, it does work. Besides, having yet another piece of navigation equipment at my disposal isn't a bad idea. I'm gonna go out to the airport later and get the make/model of the unit and see what I can learn about it.

 

[wsuffa]

"Okay, so then why don't you show me how you would confirm proper signal reception & operation?"

Face it folks, trying to duck a legitimate topic/question via regulatory shenanigans is a recipe for disaster. Much easier to learn the rudimentary skills and move on to another task.

Or simply pull it out for the checkride and ask the mechanic to give you an amended W&B.

 

[inav8r]

Well, the Loran is a Foster 500. The database was last updated in 1995... The manual with the POH is for a different model Loran, and I was unable to get anywhere with it... I searched the net for a manual and I couldn't find anything.

 

[inav8r]

Here's a close-up of the Foster LRN-500 (I think originally manufactured by BF Goodrich). Only reference I could find online was a link to buy a manual for it.... If anyone could offer me some assistance, I would appreciate it, as I don't have a lesson with my instructor until Thursday.

 

[smagal]

Here's a close-up of the Foster LRN-500 (I think originally manufactured by BF Goodrich). Only reference I could find online was a link to buy a manual for it.... If anyone could offer me some assistance, I would appreciate it, as I don't have a lesson with my instructor until Thursday.

I have an old manual for a loran. It is for a Foster "F4 Phoenix" loran. The picture of the loran in the manual is identical to the one you sent, except for two things: (1) the "left" and "right" buttons on yours is in the top right, above the knob; the one on my manual is at the bottom right, below the know, and (2) the logo in your at the top left is on the top right and the word Phoenix is at the top left.

Also, there is a phone number on the manual for Foster Aircraft Systems: 614-825-2001. Is the company still in existence?

Does anyone know if the F4 is sufficiently similar to the 500 to be useful to Mike?

My manual is from an old C172 that our club used to have. If you want, Mike, I can mail it to you.

Take care,

Simha

 

[poadeleted20]

Here's a close-up of the Foster LRN-500 (I think originally manufactured by BF Goodrich).

Gevalt! That thing ought to be removed and used as a doorstop in the clubhouse.

Only reference I could find online was a link to buy a manual for it.

...which is what your club should do, ASAP. An outfit that does training and doesn't have all the relevent manuals to operate the equipment provided is not doing its students any favors. For no more than $24 (do a Google on Foster LRN-500 LORAN manual), it's an appropriate expense for the club.