inspired by the pro-rata threads

[Toby]

In this new scenario, Pilot A begins flying with Pilot B who owns an airplane. Pilot B has offered to let Pilot A use his airplane from time to time, but first he wants them to fly together several times until he is confident that Pilot A is comfortable in and used to his airplane.

1. Can Pilot B ask Pilot A to pay for the fuel used when the two of them go up together for these practice flights? After the initial flights are finished, Pilot A will be paying a higher rate to rent the plane and fly alone.

2. Can Pilot B ask Pilot A to pay the $25/month it costs to keep her on B's insurance policy?

Thanks.

 

[bbchien]

In this new scenario, Pilot A begins flying with Pilot B who owns an airplane. Pilot B has offered to let Pilot A use his airplane from time to time, but first he wants them to fly together several times until he is confident that Pilot A is comfortable in and used to his airplane.

1. Can Pilot B ask Pilot A to pay for the fuel used when the two of them go up together for these practice flights? After the initial flights are finished, Pilot A will be paying a higher rate to rent the plane and fly alone.

2. Can Pilot B ask Pilot A to pay the $25/month it costs to keep her on B's insurance policy?

Thanks.

Pilot B can rent the a/c to pilot A for whatever (unstated reason) rate to whcih pilot A will agree. However, this is an unwise situation for other (liability) reasons- !

 

[Ed Guthrie]

In this new scenario, Pilot A begins flying with Pilot B who owns an airplane. Pilot B has offered to let Pilot A use his airplane from time to time, but first he wants them to fly together several times until he is confident that Pilot A is comfortable in and used to his airplane.

1. Can Pilot B ask Pilot A to pay for the fuel used when the two of them go up together for these practice flights? After the initial flights are finished, Pilot A will be paying a higher rate to rent the plane and fly alone.

Toby, when you get two PIC qualified pilots in the aircraft the whole "pro rata" rule pretty much goes out the window for all practical purposes. The "pro rata" rule was created to handle pilot/passenger situations.

2. Can Pilot B ask Pilot A to pay the $25/month it costs to keep her on B's insurance policy?

With two pilots the entire arrangement is an aircraft rental. Pilot B can pretty much charge whatever s/he wants for whatever reasons s/he deems appropriate. The only time this would trip over the line is if Pilot A effectively rode as a passenger (i.e. in the back), Pilot B flew, and Pilot A paid for the flight (the ride, not the flying time).

 

[Toby]

Pilot B can rent the a/c to pilot A for whatever (unstated reason) rate to whcih pilot A will agree. However, this is an unwise situation for other (liability) reasons- !

Bruce, is there a risk to Pilot A? (not worried about B ) Pilot A is not an owner/operator and also has a separate renters' insurance policy.

B is operating as a commercial operation and knows the rules and knows the risks of not adhering. But not my business.

 

[Toby]

Toby, when you get two PIC qualified pilots in the aircraft the whole "pro rata" rule pretty much goes out the window for all practical purposes. The "pro rata" rule was created to handle pilot/passenger situations.



With two pilots the entire arrangement is an aircraft rental. Pilot B can pretty much charge whatever s/he wants for whatever reasons s/he deems appropriate. The only time this would trip over the line is if Pilot A effectively rode as a passenger (i.e. in the back), Pilot B flew, and Pilot A paid for the flight (the ride, not the flying time).

Thanks, Ed. I didn't know this was created for pilot/passenger situations. Most of the time my "passengers" are other pilots.

Oh, and sometimes Pilot A may fly from the back as PIC. Not that that changes anything.

 

[poadeleted20]

Toby, when you get two PIC qualified pilots in the aircraft the whole "pro rata" rule pretty much goes out the window for all practical purposes. The "pro rata" rule was created to handle pilot/passenger situations.

While I think Ed is generally correct, I didn't see any pilot/non-pilot exception in 61.113. True, rental situations are different than expense sharing, but I suspect there are still ways the FAA might use 61.113 in a 2-pilot situation if the violation was sufficiently egregious, such as in the situation Ed described at the end of his post, in which I don't think the FAA would care which seat Pilot A were in if Pilot B were flying the plane and logging the time, and didn't have a "common purpose" for the flight.

BTW, Pilot A cannot legally be PIC in the back seat. See 14 CFR 91.105(a). The PIC must be at a pilot station throughout the flight except as noted in that paragraph, and I can't see applying either exception in a C-172.

 

[Ken Ibold]

BTW, Pilot A cannot legally be PIC in the back seat.

Awww, Ron, sure (s)he could. I've done it a bunch of times. Check out Toby's avatar. Don't you start assuming everyone flies 4-place trikes!!!

 

[John J]

Ron;

Thanks for your post. After all these years (46) of flying and learning, your post really tells it well. I flew with a fellow pilot for over 15 years sharing our flying adventures. We had a very strict rule is that in my plane I was PIC and in his He was PIC in his. It worked out very well.

The key was working out all the details way ahead of time and sticking to them.


Toby; thank you for the thread for it makes us all think about all the "little things that can become big things"

John

 

[BillG]

Awww, Ron, sure (s)he could. I've done it a bunch of times. Check out Toby's avatar. Don't you start assuming everyone flies 4-place trikes!!!

Zing! Good one, Ken... LOL