Ins. for low time in high perf., complex single

[ActiveAir]

Well, looking at getting into the Comanche, and as many said in the other thread, insurance is looking like a pain if at all possible. Anyone have experience or a referral/suggestion on where to get coverage? I know I will pay until I get the history behind me. Avemco already said they wouldn't quote and then didn't give clear indication of what I'd need. I was surprised by the woman's lack of consideration and her demeanor. She could not give me a clear answer as to what I would need in order to deserve a quote from her. Her attitude will probably have cost them a customer in the future, when I do rate.

 

[RotorAndWing]

You can call any insurance broker for a quote. However, once one insurance broker has quoted a given "N" number it locks out any other broker from quoting that same plane unless you fill out a form and submit it.

Pick a broker you are comfortable with and call them. At this point and time with the market where it is I'm not surprised if you are going to have a difficult time acquiring insurance.

Good luck.

 

[TMetzinger]

If there is a comanche owner's group, why not ask them - many "type" groups have preferred brokers.

 

[ActiveAir]

You can call any insurance broker for a quote. However, once one insurance broker has quoted a given "N" number it locks out any other broker from quoting that same plane unless you fill out a form and submit it.

Pick a broker you are comfortable with and call them. At this point and time with the market where it is I'm not surprised if you are going to have a difficult time acquiring insurance.

Good luck.

Hmmm. I didn't know that. Yep, the tenacles of AIG are everywhere.

If there is a comanche owner's group, why not ask them - many "type" groups have preferred brokers.

Great idea....thanks.

 

[RMCN172RG]

I did that last year, except the 172RG is not hp, and wound up with AIG through AOPA. At the time I was new IR rating 8 hours in the 172RG make and 5 hours in a 182RG for additional complex time.

I was able to get insurance and fly the the aircraft home from FL to MI without 10 hours in the plane or a CFI on board.

Significant 35% drop this year with the additional ~80 hours in type.

Good Luck

 

[Ken Ibold]

You can call any insurance broker for a quote. However, once one insurance broker has quoted a given "N" number it locks out any other broker from quoting that same plane unless you fill out a form and submit it.

It's quite possible to get "sample" quotes without giving an N-number at all. Just say you are shopping and haven't found an airplane yet. No problem.

I would like to plug Gene Duflo, 800-786-3341. He got insurance for my partner and I in a Lance when my partner didn't even have his private certificate yet. There are speciality insurers out there for folks who are treading around the edges of insurability, and it's not always a matter of high premiums. Give Gene a call.

 

[RotorAndWing]

It's quite possible to get "sample" quotes without giving an N-number at all. Just say you are shopping and haven't found an airplane yet. No problem.

They'll give you a "ballpark" quote based upon a similar situation that they recently insured. But before the underwriters will actual "quote" (bindable) they will require the Registration number. So while that "ballpark" number may be ok for planning it doesn't necessarily mean the underwriter will insure you also for that amount, or even at all.

 

[Ken Ibold]

They'll give you a "ballpark" quote based upon a similar situation that they recently insured. But before the underwriters will actual "quote" (bindable) they will require the Registration number. So while that "ballpark" number may be ok for planning it doesn't necessarily mean the underwriter will insure you also for that amount, or even at all.

Well, every time I've done it the deal has remained the same as what you're calling a ballpark quote.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Well, every time I've done it the deal has remained the same as what you're calling a ballpark quote.

That may very well be. But take an example of a low time pilot wanting to insure in a complex plane, or a first time twin owner. While your background may be very insurable, they may not so.

I have insured my plane with Avemco for the past 10 years or so. I have insured with Brokers for other aircraft I've owned and never had a problem with a quote or insurability.

What I'm trying to point out, especially for a low time high risk pilot is don't get a "I'm just shopping" quote from a broker and expect that rate to be there when he actually buys the aircraft. It's the difference of being bound to coverage or not.

 

[poadeleted20]

For a broker, I highly recommend Norris Hibbler at Aircraft & Marine (http://www.aircraftandmarine.com/about.aspx). If there's anyone out there who'll insure a low time/non-IR pilot in a complex/HP single, Norris will find them. And if not, he'll tell you what you need to get there from here.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, looking at getting into the Comanche, and as many said in the other thread, insurance is looking like a pain if at all possible. Anyone have experience or a referral/suggestion on where to get coverage? I know I will pay until I get the history behind me. Avemco already said they wouldn't quote and then didn't give clear indication of what I'd need. I was surprised by the woman's lack of consideration and her demeanor. She could not give me a clear answer as to what I would need in order to deserve a quote from her. Her attitude will probably have cost them a customer in the future, when I do rate.

Is this the older-sounding lady? I called them today too and asked them to verify something that they'd said they would do for us in the past and she said "Oh, no, we wouldn't do that" and then when I pressed her on it until she checked with her boss, the answer changed to a "yes".

Try again - I've usually gotten absolutely excellent service from them, with the exception of this one person.

 

[SCCutler]

I shopped last year when I bought the Bo; Avemco quoted something astronomical, like $3,200; from a number of others, I was quoted $2,100 to $2,300, got a $1,900 ballpark quote from AOPAIA, when I called to bind it, he came back with a higher premium ($2,200-ish).

When I said, "Hey, that's higher than your quote, the guy said, "You know what, it is, let me look into that again..." and 30 minutes later, he called back with a $1,700 firm quote (and only an instructor checkout required, instead of the 10 hours most were asking for). Bound with a phone call, proof of insurance emailed instantly.

This year, renewal quote, rate dropped a little more than $100.00. Excellent service.

 

[ActiveAir]

Thanks for the leads and insight, everyone. I will follow up with each and everyone of them, next week. Tough to beat referrals from people with experience dealing with the individuals/companies.

Is this the older-sounding lady? I called them today too and asked them to verify something that they'd said they would do for us in the past and she said "Oh, no, we wouldn't do that" and then when I pressed her on it until she checked with her boss, the answer changed to a "yes".

Try again - I've usually gotten absolutely excellent service from them, with the exception of this one person.

Yes, it was an older (cranky) sounding woman. Seemed as though I interrupted her day. Everyone has bad days I guess. I'll give them another try. There's usually always at least one in every company that doesn't get the customer relations thing. Hope her days go better in the future.

I shopped last year when I bought the Bo; Avemco quoted something astronomical, like $3,200; from a number of others, I was quoted $2,100 to $2,300, got a $1,900 ballpark quote from AOPAIA, when I called to bind it, he came back with a higher premium ($2,200-ish).

When I said, "Hey, that's higher than your quote, the guy said, "You know what, it is, let me look into that again..." and 30 minutes later, he called back with a $1,700 firm quote (and only an instructor checkout required, instead of the 10 hours most were asking for). Bound with a phone call, proof of insurance emailed instantly.

This year, renewal quote, rate dropped a little more than $100.00. Excellent service.

Great customer service. That's what it's all about, and sometimes a little push helps.....

 

[Shipoke]

Well active i don't have a complex plane but when i bought my warrior i was a low time pilot and Professional Insurance Management treated me well. Contact them at (800) 826-4442 and talk to Elayne. tell her Dave Gaiski says Hello and told you to call.
Dave G. N8085A

 

[Larryo]

Well, looking at getting into the Comanche, and as many said in the other thread, insurance is looking like a pain if at all possible. .......

You didn't say what the plane was worth and what the premium would be, however, I'd bet that it's a fairly poor financial decision. 250 Comanches seem to be in the 50 to 80K range, and insurance for that should be less than $1000 to $1600 range. (2% of hull or less). If it's much more than that, the risk/benefit is too high and it you're really that dangerous, you should give up flying. With that number you could have a total loss every 15 to 20 years (factoring in the time value of money, hassle, deductible, etc).

Work out your own numbers and make a decision....

Now, if financed or partner, they you probably have to pay the piper... unless you can work something out.

 

[ActiveAir]

Well active i don't have a complex plane but when i bought my warrior i was a low time pilot and Professional Insurance Management treated me well. Contact them at (800) 826-4442 and talk to Elayne. tell her Dave Gaiski says Hello and told you to call.
Dave G. N8085A

Thanks, I'll be making calls this week.

You didn't say what the plane was worth and what the premium would be, however, I'd bet that it's a fairly poor financial decision. 250 Comanches seem to be in the 50 to 80K range, and insurance for that should be less than $1000 to $1600 range. (2% of hull or less). If it's much more than that, the risk/benefit is too high and it you're really that dangerous, you should give up flying. With that number you could have a total loss every 15 to 20 years (factoring in the time value of money, hassle, deductible, etc).

Work out your own numbers and make a decision....

Now, if financed or partner, they you probably have to pay the piper... unless you can work something out.

Well, I'm not sure what aspect of airplane ownership is a financially sound decision (I mean beyond having the resources). It's like boating - not financially sound usually, but the memories and experiences are priceless. I would fly recreationally, and would not look strictly for a monetary ROI, other than to take great care of the plane as to hold value in the event of selling it. As you point out, I do want it to make financial sense from a comparitive sense, and from that sense, I appreciate your comments, and will make a decision soon, understanding that I may pay the piper (for the Piper ) early on. THere are some other aspects of this deal that make it attractive; location, personality of partner, etc.

 

[Larryo]

Thanks, I'll be making calls this week.
......

Well, I'm not sure what aspect of airplane ownership is a financially sound decision \

Active,

My comment was meant that the INSURANCE was a poor financial decision, in most cases. The purchase of the plane is great, and I'd jump on it.... don't need to justify that.

 

[ActiveAir]

Active,

My comment was meant that the INSURANCE was a poor financial decision, in most cases. The purchase of the plane is great, and I'd jump on it.... don't need to justify that.

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[Bill]

Well, looking at getting into the Comanche, and as many said in the other thread, insurance is looking like a pain if at all possible. Anyone have experience or a referral/suggestion on where to get coverage? I know I will pay until I get the history behind me.

Brent and I had zero retract, no complex signoff, zero in type, and very little high perf when we bought the Mooney. 1st year was $2300 full coverage, IIRC. Renewal this year dropped it to $18xx, can't remember exactly.

 

[ActiveAir]

Brent and I had zero retract, no complex signoff, zero in type, and very little high perf when we bought the Mooney. 1st year was $2300 full coverage, IIRC. Renewal this year dropped it to $18xx, can't remember exactly.

Nice. So, it can be done. I'll get to the brass tacks this week.