Incorrect TFR times?

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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Midlothian, TX
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3Green
I suspect that the TFR times for the Alliance Air Show in Fort Worth TX next weekend may be incorrect. Who would I call to report that? The "point of contact" in the TFR text, LM FSS, ??

Here's the TFR:
http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_2441.html

I was thinking about flying from a nearby airport (52F) that is JUST outside the TFR for a breakfast flight next Saturday 10/30. The TFR says that on the 30th, the TFR is effective from 1045 UTC until 1700 UTC. We're under daylight savings time, CDT, so we're -0500 from UTC. That would make the effective local times 5:45 AM to 12:00 noon.

That doesn't make sense; the airshow schedule has performances beginning at 10:00 and ending around 4pm each day:

http://www.allianceairshow.com/PilotsPlanes/Schedule.aspx

So 1045 CDT to 1700 CDT (not UTC) would make sense; I think they forgot to correct the TFR's times to UTC.

It could be a real safety of flight issue for pilots (and the Blue Angels, Golden Knights, and other performers) if the actual airshow period isn't correctly described in the TFR.
 
I left VM for Ralph Royce, the air boss associated with the NOTAM, and called the Coordination Facility (AFW tower)... AFW is going to look into it and call me back.
 
Toni, the nice ground control lady at AFW, just called back. "Times ARE incorrect, thanks for the heads up!" Watch for an updated TFR.
 
We had the same issue when we went to meet up with John and Jamie a couple months ago.
 
Yes, the times were incorrect BUT the nice man in the F16 firing flares across your nose wants you to call the tower upon landing!
 
Wow, Grant! Who proof-reads these?!?!

Denny, I think you're right--you'd still get in trouble. Of course, to fly in this particular airspace, Class D, you'd have called the tower by the time you entered the TFR space, so you'd get a heads up.
 
That's nothing, folks.
I subscribe to FAA Safety.Gov and get the TFRs emailed to me. Lately I've been getting emails about TFRs that expired more than a week ago!!
This morning I got three of 'em for October 15th and 17th!!!
Hello FAA...Today is the 23rd of the month!
 
OffCenter said:
That's nothing, folks.
I subscribe to FAA Safety.Gov and get the TFRs emailed to me. Lately I've been getting emails about TFRs that expired more than a week ago!!
This morning I got three of 'em for October 15th and 17th!!!
Hello FAA...Today is the 23rd of the month!
Click to expand...
So I wasn't the only one! I was wondering if I was just misreading them on my phone or something.
 
OffCenter said:
That's nothing, folks.
I subscribe to FAA Safety.Gov and get the TFRs emailed to me. Lately I've been getting emails about TFRs that expired more than a week ago!!
This morning I got three of 'em for October 15th and 17th!!!
Hello FAA...Today is the 23rd of the month!
Click to expand...
I got 'em too....
 
No, you read it right!!
This is not the first time. This has been going on for about a month now.
 
OffCenter said:
That's nothing, folks.
I subscribe to FAA Safety.Gov and get the TFRs emailed to me. Lately I've been getting emails about TFRs that expired more than a week ago!!
This morning I got three of 'em for October 15th and 17th!!!
Hello FAA...Today is the 23rd of the month!
Click to expand...
Doesn't that just make you feel really safe and secure?
 
Conversely, some tfrs are bogus. El Paso airshow, TFR at Biggs was supposed to be in place. Flew through it once last weekend under atc direction. "What tfr?"

It seems like a system someone decided we must have, to satisfy the insecure, but its not really being done well or properly in any regard.
 
OffCenter said:
That's nothing, folks.
I subscribe to FAA Safety.Gov and get the TFRs emailed to me. Lately I've been getting emails about TFRs that expired more than a week ago!!
This morning I got three of 'em for October 15th and 17th!!!
Hello FAA...Today is the 23rd of the month!
Click to expand...

I thought it was only me. I got one late last night for last Sunday's (10/17) POTUS TFR in Columbus, OH
 
timwinters said:
I thought it was only me. I got one late last night for last Sunday's (10/17) POTUS TFR in Columbus, OH
Click to expand...

It wasn't just TFR's. I got a "reminder" for an FAA FAAST seminar I attended on 10/19, but the reminder came yesterday (the 23rd). Sounds like their email reminder system got screwed up.
 
OffCenter said:
That's nothing, folks.
I subscribe to FAA Safety.Gov and get the TFRs emailed to me. Lately I've been getting emails about TFRs that expired more than a week ago!!
This morning I got three of 'em for October 15th and 17th!!!
Hello FAA...Today is the 23rd of the month!
Click to expand...

I checked with my FAASTeam PM on that... and he forwarded me the reply. They have 1.2Million.. yes MILLION Emails backed up in the queue and cannot figure out the problem. That's what happens when you pay the lowest bidder for service.
 
I have had that issue in Sumpter SC this summer. The TFR was to expire at 1500L and they were just launching the Blue Angles at that time. When i asked the tower they said that the TFR was in effect until 1900L. I told them about the error as a lot of confused pilots were closing in on the surrounding airport with no clue that there was a TFR still in effect.

I would hate to know what would happen if a pilot violated a TFR that was supposed to be closed.
 
In this case, they did get the TFR text corrected before the airshow. Like Grant Farmer, I wonder what would happen to the pilot who violated a TFR with incorrect times... I can't imagine he'd be found at fault. How can you comply with "what we MEANT to say"?
 
TMetzinger said:
Do you know that the contract was awarded to the lowest bidder?
sent from my android
Click to expand...
Off topic response:

Even a low bidder must meet the requirements to be awarded the contract. The contract is let to a qualified bidder. And whatever was bidded, they still must meet the terms of the contract. Oh sure, some contractors have lawyers at the ready to argue the terms (settled usually after the contract is completed) as the contractor provides what they think the contracts specifies but in any case, the contractor still has to comply with the terms as defined by the govt entity. Bidding govt contracts is a high stakes game.

Any bidder who wants to stay in business will perform to only the minimal as specified in a contract. This means a high bidder won't neccessarily provide exceptional performance, only that they would get a higher margin. This presents another condition contrary to the general perception about low bidders; a high bid may be the result of a company requiring a higher margin to remain solvent. It is quite possible a high bidder would not be able to obtain his required high margin, therefore not be able to perform to the level of a lower bid.


sent from pos library PC
 
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