In the market for my first car...

[david0tey]

I read somewhere that you shouldn't spend more than 20% per month of what you earn on car payments. Does that sound like a good rule to live by?

 

[Bill]

I have a 2001 F150 Lariat edition that I don't mind but I'm absolutely not in love with. It really dances the quality line in pretty much every aspect, it seems. It's not very often that there isn't something on it I'm fixing.

Interesting. I've owned a 2001 F150 XLT Supercrew 4x4 since new, it has ben the most dependable and durable vehicle I've ever owned. It still looks and drives great. I've spent a sum total of maybe $1400 in unscheduled repairs over the last 13 years.

I'd love to buy a new one, but it is impossible to justify when the old one is still very nice.

 

[Ted]

I read somewhere that you shouldn't spend more than 20% per month of what you earn on car payments. Does that sound like a good rule to live by?

I have never had a car payment, and I think that's a better rule to live by. We just bought my wife a new BMW - it's a 1997 740iL with 144,000 miles on it and cost $4,000. My daily driver is a 450 HP Mitsubishi 3000GT with 173,000 miles on it, cost $5,500 when I bought it 4 years ago at 137k.

Seriously, save money for a down payment on a house. Depending on what's wrong with the car you're driving (and if it's expected to get handed down to another sibling), buy a set of wrenches from Harbor Freight and make friends with www.rockauto.com

If you really want a truck, look for an old one - 90s is my decade of choice. I would buy a 3/4-ton truck because they tend to be more durable in my experience, plus I like how they drive better. But the mileage will be bad. They sound boring, but a Lincoln Town Car is one of the best deals out there and extremely reliable. I had one in college and loved it.

 

[asgcpa]

Carmax will ship it to a carmax that is close to you for far less than it will cost you to go get it. That's kind of their "thing".

I have a 2001 F150 Lariat edition that I don't mind but I'm absolutely not in love with. It really dances the quality line in pretty much every aspect, it seems. It's not very often that there isn't something on it I'm fixing.

Is your Ford a:


Fix Or Repair Daily or Found On Road Dead model?

 

[ClimbnSink]

Is your Ford a:


Fix Or Repair Daily or Found On Road Dead model?

First on race day or F'd on race day.

 

[MickYoumans]

To find the value of any used car, run it through the Kelly Blue Book website. Just click the used car button on the home page and run through the questions and it will tell you the retail and personal sale values.
http://www.kbb.com

 

[Arbiter419]

 

[weilke]

I read somewhere that you shouldn't spend more than 20% per month of what you earn on car payments. Does that sound like a good rule to live by?

This comes from the same people who make up dumb rules on what percentage of your income you are supposed to spend on your mortgage and how many months worth of income on an engagement ring.

Look at what you need, look at what you want, buy somewhere in between the two.

I have had car payments twice in my life. One was a leasing deal I couldn't refuse (2 years payments + guaranteed residual lower than cash) and the other was when my wife moved to the frozen tundra and needed something more reliable than the 200k miles beaters we had at the time (that car is now a 200k mile beater and is on the Henning maintenance plan of just adding oil).

Your high-mile handmedown seems to have been doing the job just fine. Buy whatever you can afford with the cash at hand. Put your 'payment' into a savings account each month and cover repairs out of that. In three years you'll have enough in the account to buy a new truck with cash.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I owned a full size three quarter ton extended cab pickup when I didn't really "need" a truck, e.g. I hauled heavy things and towed trailers from time to time but not often enough to justify owning one. But, I got the diesel option, which gave me a true 25 mpg highway mileage, and put over 200,000 miles on it so I guess the payback was there.

Nowadays, the next car I buy will likely be a Toyota Corolla.

 

[jmn444]

I think I was almost 30 before I bought a car I needed a loan for... and almost 40 now and don't plan to do it again lol....

Money is pretty cheap these days if you have good credit, but run amortization schedules and look at the annual and total interest costs and really think about if it's worth that "extra" cost to have the car/truck/toy now vs. saving up for it.

I'm not good at waiting for things, but sometimes the cost is too much.

Good luck!

 

[dell30rb]

The only car i've ever retired was on that plan. It was sold to a guy to be parted out. I was on the henning plan for 20-30k miles and then the transmission took a dump. It made it to 200k.. V8 Jeep

Then I made the mistake of buying a newer car and taking out a loan. I bought a Pathfinder with 60k miles from a dealership, about 15% less than carmax wanted for a similar vehicle. Carmax is overpriced.

After a year of car payments, much higher insurance and putting 20k on that car, I sold it for about $4000 less than I paid for it.

I picked up a 2004 Acura MDX with 200,000 miles. It needed tires, brakes, shocks/struts and a timing belt, spark plugs and all fluid changes were due. But the engine, transmission and body + interior were 100% in great shape. I paid $2000 for the car and got all the work done for $1500 (did brakes, fluid changes and spark plugs myself). It looks/drives like new, a nicer ride than the car it replaced. Nice leather interior, power / heated everything, etc...

Also to satisfy my want for a truck I bought a 1994 2500 4x4 suburban w 250,000 miles. Same story there, picked it up super cheap due to the high miles and some minor work it needed. Engine, trans, body interior were in excellent shape.

If you want to take out a loan and buy a newer car, go for it. If you don't drive much and are willing to shop around for a good deal (forget carmax) you can get a good loan interest rate and sell the car 2-3 yrs down the road and not lose a whole boat load of money. In my case I actually made a spreadsheet and calculated that I would save about $6500 over three years by selling the pathfinder and buying that Acura. And that is a conservative estimate, I budgeted the Acura would be worth $1000 in 3 yrs and that I would have to deal with a major maintenance issue at some point (budgeted $1500 for unplanned maintenance)

 

[jmn444]

As an aside, low(er) mile engines and transmissions can be found in salvage yards that greatly extend the life of a vehicle.... for reasonable money....

 

[Z06_Mir]

I have never had a car payment, and I think that's a better rule to live by. We just bought my wife a new BMW - it's a 1997 740iL with 144,000 miles on it and cost $4,000. My daily driver is a 450 HP Mitsubishi 3000GT with 173,000 miles on it, cost $5,500 when I bought it 4 years ago at 137k.

Seriously, save money for a down payment on a house. Depending on what's wrong with the car you're driving (and if it's expected to get handed down to another sibling), buy a set of wrenches from Harbor Freight and make friends with www.rockauto.com

If you really want a truck, look for an old one - 90s is my decade of choice. I would buy a 3/4-ton truck because they tend to be more durable in my experience, plus I like how they drive better. But the mileage will be bad. They sound boring, but a Lincoln Town Car is one of the best deals out there and extremely reliable. I had one in college and loved it.

Have you looked into the mx cost for that 740? We flip cars and the 540 we did was not a cheap fix.... Though we did make good money on it in the end.

I think I was almost 30 before I bought a car I needed a loan for... and almost 40 now and don't plan to do it again lol....

Money is pretty cheap these days if you have good credit, but run amortization schedules and look at the annual and total interest costs and really think about if it's worth that "extra" cost to have the car/truck/toy now vs. saving up for it.

I'm not good at waiting for things, but sometimes the cost is too much.

Good luck!

Money is cheap right now. My auto loan is like 2.18%. Over the 3 year life I'm paying less than $1000 in interest.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Never cared much for most American truck designs.

I vastly prefer Toyotas, though they tend to hold their value into ridiculously old age.

Headed up to my buddies to snatch up an '87 4X4 yota with a bad four speed in it. Gonna install the new (used) tranny with a new clutch kit and flip it. The off road set out here goes nuts for an old Toyota 4X4 with a straight axle, I suspect I'll make a good buck on it.

I had a 2007 4 passenger,4x4 toyota Tacoma. Great great truck. No problems in 100,000 miles, ran well, nice to drive on a 300 mile trip which I did often.

 

[Ted]

Have you looked into the mx cost for that 740? We flip cars and the 540 we did was not a cheap fix.... Though we did make good money on it in the end.

Since I do all my own work, it's not terrible. But you're right that it's not a cheap car to own if you can't turn a wrench.

 

[jesse]

Interesting. I've owned a 2001 F150 XLT Supercrew 4x4 since new, it has ben the most dependable and durable vehicle I've ever owned. It still looks and drives great. I've spent a sum total of maybe $1400 in unscheduled repairs over the last 13 years.

I'd love to buy a new one, but it is impossible to justify when the old one is still very nice.

That looks exactly like mine except mine is the Lariat. I have no idea what sort of life my truck had before I had it, which probably has a lot to do with the problems I've encountered.

 

[Henning]

I read somewhere that you shouldn't spend more than 20% per month of what you earn on car payments. Does that sound like a good rule to live by?

Sounds like the car manufacturers dream lol. I don't do car payments, I buy end of life vehicles for <$1000 and drive them a couple of years until they die or I need to get rid of them to leave the country.

 

[Bill]

I have no idea what sort of life my truck had before I had it, which probably has a lot to do with the problems I've encountered.

True. I prefer to buy new, order the options I want, then drive it until it won't move anymore.

 

[us AAirways]

I read somewhere that you shouldn't spend more than 20% per month of what you earn on car payments. Does that sound like a good rule to live by?

Buying only what one can afford?? That's no fun!

Think of how small our economy would be if people weren't maxed out.

 

[jesse]

20% of your income per month on a car is absolutely insane. I limit myself to that for a HOUSE. Such spending would leave no money for doing things in life that make life worth living. Sitting at home and doing nothing isn't my thing.

 

[steingar]

For less than the price of the used truck I bought a brand new Honda Fit. Thing will fit just about anything I need to haul, gets awesome gas mileage, isn't a total pig to drive and will likely work forever, Hondas do that.

First car I bought myself was a Nissan pickup truck, came in handy for the old houses I've owned. The Fit does the job just fine now. Can't see a use for a truck if you don't own property. Can't see the use of a full sized truck if you don't own lots of property, at least not as a personal vehicle.

But like the man said, this is advice. Me, I didn't get a fun car until I was 40 and could pay cash for it.

 

[Bill]

Can't see the use of a full sized truck if you don't own lots of property, at least not as a personal vehicle.

From all the reviews I've read, the Fit is a fine vehicle. But, it won't tow the 4000# boat to the lake.

 

[ClimbnSink]

From all the reviews I've read, the Fit is a fine vehicle. But, it won't tow the 4000# boat to the lake.

Truck is better is for the hang glider rack you will need soon.

 

[Bill]

Truck is better is for the hang glider rack you will need soon.

I've been thinking about that.....

I already have a set of Thule bars for the cab roof, and the truck has a camper shell. I figure another bar at the back of the shell plus the Thule bars should provide good support. I probably will attach a long ladder to the bars, pad the rungs with pool noodles, and go with that.

If I like it after the tandem ride, that is. But I know myself, I'll like it! If I do, I will sell one of the motorcycles and use the funds to buy a wing.

(I once long ago explained to my wife the well known physics law, The law of Convervation of Toys: Toys can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only change in form. )

 

[jesse]

For less than the price of the used truck I bought a brand new Honda Fit. Thing will fit just about anything I need to haul, gets awesome gas mileage, isn't a total pig to drive and will likely work forever, Hondas do that.

First car I bought myself was a Nissan pickup truck, came in handy for the old houses I've owned. The Fit does the job just fine now. Can't see a use for a truck if you don't own property. Can't see the use of a full sized truck if you don't own lots of property, at least not as a personal vehicle.

But like the man said, this is advice. Me, I didn't get a fun car until I was 40 and could pay cash for it.

I don't drive my truck as a daily driver but "need" it for my lifestyle. My car (a 220,000 mile 1998 Honda that I paid $1,000 for) isn't so good at towing my many thousand lb boat. It's also horrible at hauling things that are 8 ft x 4 ft which I commonly buy for various projects.

 

[denverpilot]

Throwing thoughts in:

I'll never pick on anyone who wants a truck. Trucks are fun. I've even converted my wife to be a believer, even if it took hunting down one of only 800 2008 Lincoln LT pickups in the while damn country because she liked the chrome and bling. Ha.

(By the way, she's over that already and says the next one long in the future can be a regular F-150. Heh. Chrome here 'em in the door... Bashing down a country two lane with washboards hooks 'em.) haha.

That said...

There are better deals out there. The King Ranch package is just two toned leather that you're going to hop in one day and rip anyway. Ha.

I needed a tow vehicle for a 33' trailer. I found a pristine 2001 Dodge 3500 dually from a personal friend who's fanatical about maintenance for less than your truck, complete with add ons necessary to fix all the factory screw ups on Dodges. (Grin. That'll make Greg Kainz laugh.) And a Reese 18,000 lb 5th wheel hitch, 5th wheel tailgate, huge diamond plate tool box, and a Cummins exhaust brake and 4" exhaust replacement from tip to tail.

So if you must go pickup truck, and I understand that feeling, and I'm willing to pay for the higher fuel of a truck and can afford it, keep looking. If you're patient and ask around, "the deal" will eventually come along.

Someone got a STEAL on my dad's 1999 Suburban 2500 with the 7L/454. We simply didn't need it. Put it on Crsigslist for a reasonable price and it was gone in 48 hours. It was in immaculate condition. I just didn't want to mess with it. I didn't need an extra truck. I had three at the time.

I share that because there's always someone out there in a similar circumstance. But you have to turn hunting into your fun free time "job" to catch those and have cash. The heavy Slavic accented guy who bought it from me met me in a WalMart parking lot at 10:30 at night when our schedules matched and handed me a pile of $100 bills saying, "I love this truck. Make me your best offer!" Cash is king in used car deals!

Now that ive got you all excited about finding a truck deal, I'll give my stepdad's advice to a young man: "Get a truck, or a van, or a station wagon. Young people move a lot. Move your own stuff and make sure everything you buy fits in whatever you bought."

That sentiment comes around on the bumper sticker one of my trucks had: "Yes, this is my truck. No, I won't help you move."

Steingar's thoughts on the Honda Fit are dead on, too. It'll do the job.

I've had a bunch of cars and trucks. I always come back to stuff on truck frames. I like stuff I can get to under the hood. Cars today you typically can't work on, easily, but then again you rarely have to.

Something big enough to haul your crap when you move, cheap enough you can pay cash or as close to cash as possible, and drive if until it truly dies. Motor mounts are cheap. Your current truck is still fine but understand your sis gets it. Cheaper to fix than to buy even a used one. Once you cross that line, sell it and buy another one using above criteria. Heh.

 

[denverpilot]

P.S. When you hit your 40s, pay some other idiots with a bigger truck to move your house. Trust me on this one. Heh.

 

[steingar]

From all the reviews I've read, the Fit is a fine vehicle. But, it won't tow the 4000# boat to the lake.

The Fit could certain tow it, just not very far or fast, and certainly not uphill. But odds are if you have a two-ton boat you likely have some property on which to stash it, in which case you will likely find a truck to be quite useful even in the absence of said boat.

I could carry a hang glider in the Fit easily.

 

[airdale]

I have had car payments twice in my life.

Same with me. I bought a (used) Porsche on payments right after I got out of graduate school and learned my lesson on how much I hated payments.

Second loan was for the Mazda RX-8 I'm presently driving, a "new' dealer demo bought one model year old for 2/3 sticker price. Mazda offered a $2500 discount on the car if I financed with them. Did the deal, waited for the state to process the title, paid off the loan. Net cost to get the $2500 was two car payments/a couple of hundred bucks in interest. So my second-ever car loan worked out pretty well .

Do not borrow. Pay cash for your vehicles. (NB: A lease is just a complicated and expensive way of borrowing money.) You will be happier and richer in the long run. Also avoid buying new unless there is an exceptional reason for it. Let some other fool take the initial depreciation.

Find "The Millionaire Next Door" and read it. http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door The book's numbers are a little out of date, but the lessons are timeless.

 

[pilot_dude]

The Fit could certain tow it, just not very far or fast, and certainly not uphill. But odds are if you have a two-ton boat you likely have some property on which to stash it, in which case you will likely find a truck to be quite useful even in the absence of said boat.

I could carry a hang glider in the Fit easily.

You may be able to pull it, slowly, but the Fit brakes sure as hell won't be able to stop it.

 

[steingar]

Also avoid buying new unless there is an exceptional reason for it. Let some other fool take the initial depreciation.

Other fool here. I buy new and keep forever. The only reason I got rid of my last car was Obama bucks (that, and a truly mysterious oil leak).

If you're a gear head, buying used makes really good sense. But if you're somewhat less than mechanically inclined and depend on your vehicle buying new can have its advantages, the least of which is you know your vehicle has been well cared for.

 

[Bill]

You may be able to pull it, slowly, but the Fit brakes sure as hell won't be able to stop it.

And I'd love to see/smell the transmission after a couple of pulls up a typical boat ramp.

 

[weilke]

Also avoid buying new unless there is an exceptional reason for it. Let some other fool take the initial depreciation.

I disagree with that. My best economic experience with a car to date has been a Honda Accord I purchased new for my wife in 2006. It is up to 170k and still a nice enough car. If you buy new, you can order what you want (in this case a V6 with stick-shift) and you know how the car has been treated from day one. This car has required a throttle position sensor, a motor-mount and a dome light bulb, everything else has been consumables. It probably has another 4 years and 100k miles in it.

 

[airdale]

I disagree with that.

Obviously lots of people do, or there wouldn't be any year-old cars for me to buy.

My trade-off is this: In a year, a new car depreciates maybe 20% (highly variable, this is an Edmunds number). That's maybe $5000 depending on what your new car cost is. Generally, IMO, new cars are rarely mistreated by their owner -- for obvious reasons. (I would worry more about lease-returns.) So my chance of having issues due to someone else's owning the car before me is very small and probably covered by the car's warranty anyway. $5000 is more than I am willing to pay to eliminate that chance. Ditto I am not willing to pay 50 cents per mile to have a lower mileage car. Re your example, there is nothing to say that your replacement part experience would not have been the same had you bought your Honda a year old for $5K less. In fact your experience would probably have been the same but you would be $5K richer.

Regarding getting exactly what I want, I am not fussy. A car is a car. I don't want the giant engine and I don't want the expensive-when-they-die dashboard GPSs but beyond that and with a little patience watching the ads I can get something that meets my needs.

The rest of your program, drive it until the wheels fall off, I agree with completely and would so advise the OP.

 

[weilke]

Ditto I am not willing to pay 50 cents per mile to have a lower mileage car. Re your example, there is nothing to say that your replacement part experience would not have been the same had you bought your Honda a year old for $5K less. In fact your experience would probably have been the same but you would be $5K richer.

The same year I bought a 1 year old car for myself. I didn't catch when I test drove it that the prior owner was a smoker, the thing stunk for a year with repeated cleaning and shampooing and various pieces of the interior trim were already scuffed up. The rear tires scalloped after a few miles because somehow the car had slid into a curb. Less than a year in it lunched a transmission.
You are buying someones car, you are buying his driving habits and problems.

The difference between new and a year old was far less than 20% at the time. I bought used because that car needed an automatic transmission and the only other one the dealer had was a manual.

Btw. after the troubles related to the prior owner were taken care of during the first year of my ownership, the car has proven to be very reliable and cheap to maintain. 3-4 years from now, both cars will hit about 250k on the meter and arrive at the same price (couple of $$ as a trade-in). Both cars will have gone through somewhere around 1 and 1.5 times their purchase price in fuel alone and. The $2000 I would have paid for buying new over used would be a rounding error.

 

[Z06_Mir]

I just bought a 2012 and saved $20,000 by buying used. But it did take me almost to hear to find exactly what I wanted.