In The Event.....

E

erichardwick

Filing Flight Plan
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Feb 23, 2010
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Oak Harbor, WA
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HeadInTheClouds
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KOKH
In the event of sounding clueless. What would some of the CFI's out there think of a student that came to them with the completion of knowledge test and just needed flight instruction? Or had a certificate of completion from an online ground school (Sporty's, Gold Seal, Gleim, ect) and wanted to take the Knowledge test that day? Just trying to learn how all this works.
 
I'd sit him down and quiz him to see what he does and doesn't know in either situation.
 
erichardwick said:
In the event of sounding clueless. What would some of the CFI's out there think of a student that came to them with the completion of knowledge test and just needed flight instruction? Or had a certificate of completion from an online ground school (Sporty's, Gold Seal, Gleim, ect) and wanted to take the Knowledge test that day? Just trying to learn how all this works.
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If you could show the CFI that you could pass practice tests and sat down and let them review things with you for a hour or so pretty much any CFI I know would sign you off for the knowledge test (assuming your review with them was satisfactory).
 
erichardwick said:
In the event of sounding clueless. What would some of the CFI's out there think of a student that came to them with the completion of knowledge test and just needed flight instruction? Or had a certificate of completion from an online ground school (Sporty's, Gold Seal, Gleim, ect) and wanted to take the Knowledge test that day? Just trying to learn how all this works.
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For Part 61, it doesn't matter -- if the student "learned" by using the Jepp textbook as a pillow -- and was signed off by a Certified Ground of Flight Instructor to take the test -- and he/she passed? Oh well -- another hurdle cleared.

As far as showing up with some certificate of ground school completion -- that's fine, too, but you probably won't be signed off to take the exam until you prove you're actually ready to take the test.

For Part 141, it's different, as there is a more closely coupled requirement for ground and flight instruction.
 
I was one of those students.... I studied at home using Jepp books that I bought used on Ebay, and the FAA Handbook, and then went and found a flight school and instructor. What my instructor did was each lesson I arrived we went over what we were going to fly that day and then I went and preflighted the airplane. Off we went,.. flying.

Once I solo'd, I think I had maybe two 'official' ground lessons to review the XC planning and procedures for about an hour total. About that time, she gave me another quiz which was more indepth than the pre-solo quiz, and covered a lot of material we didn't necessarily talk about during our flying or limited ground school. I completed that right there at the FBO, no books, just sectionals and my E6B, and then she signed me off to take the Written.

YMMV, but that worked for me. As I studied though on my own, I did have a Mentor (Nav8tor here on POA) to help me along with questions over the phone, and even flight planning one evening at his house.
 
erichardwick said:
In the event of sounding clueless. What would some of the CFI's out there think of a student that came to them with the completion of knowledge test and just needed flight instruction? Or had a certificate of completion from an online ground school (Sporty's, Gold Seal, Gleim, ect) and wanted to take the Knowledge test that day? Just trying to learn how all this works.
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I am pretty certain that if you have finished a King or Gleim electronic course you will have that certificate to take the knowledge review from the course software. There used to be a way that once you did all the work and passed the practice test it would print out the required endorsement and that you were good to go straight to the test center without having to see a live in person CFI.
 
erichardwick said:
In the event of sounding clueless. What would some of the CFI's out there think of a student that came to them with the completion of knowledge test and just needed flight instruction? Or had a certificate of completion from an online ground school (Sporty's, Gold Seal, Gleim, ect) and wanted to take the Knowledge test that day? Just trying to learn how all this works.
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I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that approach, but the canned courses seem to be aimed at passing the written, and not necessarily at long-term knowledge retention.

Also, IIRC, there is a time limit from written test date to practical exam date (the number escapes me), so you wouldn't want to take the written way ahead of beginning your flight instruction program.


Trapper John
 
ScottM said:
I am pretty certain that if you have finished a King or Gleim electronic course you will have that certificate to take the knowledge review from the course software. There used to be a way that once you did all the work and passed the practice test it would print out the required endorsement and that you were good to go straight to the test center without having to see a live in person CFI.
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I know the test prep software I used would let you request an endorsement from an AGI that they had on staff (they'd mail it to you)....didn't bother with it, just showed my CFI the results and he signed my logbook.
 
This gives me alot to think about. I can think of so many pro's and con's to doing ground school lessons on your own vs with an instructor. I see how it would be very helpful to have a mentor if a person was going the route of gleim, sporty's, ect. What a great community I'm glad i finally joined POA.
 
I wouldn't just sign someone off unless I had good reason to believe that person was going to pass. So a student who just came to me and said "I'm all ready for the written test, you can sign me off and we'll just do flight instruction" would receive a response of "Well, if you haven't done the flight instruction at all yet, let's do a few lessons first and then I'll sign you off."

My name goes in that person's log book, I want to know a bit about that person first.
 
Trapper John said:
I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that approach, but the canned courses seem to be aimed at passing the written, and not necessarily at long-term knowledge retention.
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Gospel truth, that.

And, BTW, most of those courses mentioned (Gleim, King, etc) have a means to provide the necessary written test endorsement from a tame, in-house instructor once you finish the course, so you won't have to go to your own instructor for that endorsement, and then you don't have to worry about what Ted said. But if you don't get that with whatever training program you use, as Ted said, you'll have to convince me that you are prepared to take and pass the written. The only difference I have with what Ted said is that I won't require you to fly with me to obtain that written test endorsement -- we can do that all on the ground.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Gospel truth, that.

And, BTW, most of those courses mentioned (Gleim, King, etc) have a means to provide the necessary written test endorsement from a tame, in-house instructor once you finish the course, so you won't have to go to your own instructor for that endorsement, and then you don't have to worry about what Ted said. But if you don't get that with whatever training program you use, as Ted said, you'll have to convince me that you are prepared to take and pass the written. The only difference I have with what Ted said is that I won't require you to fly with me to obtain that written test endorsement -- we can do that all on the ground.
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My apologies - I didn't mean to imply the student had to fly with me to get that sign-off. My point was more that the student wanted to start lessons anyway, then we might as well spend a few lessons together prior to me signing the student off. That was unclear wording on my part.

I used the Gleim software for all of my writtens (private through CFI) and liked them. My CFI signed off my logbook as required for each written. The long-term knowledge retention is definitely an issue, but that's aided by using the information and participating in active discussions on such information (such as on this forum).
 
I had passed my written before I ever took an hour of formal instruction.. I did self study.. but also had the Private Pilot, Instrument and Commercial books from several different authors.. Jepp.. Gliem.. Kershner.. Ron Mochado.. And I did immersion learning.

I'm one of those "WHY" or "HOW" people.. so.. teaching to the test is painfully boring. I'm all about trying to master the subject and grasp the big picture. The instrument book helped A LOT with navigation.. and the commercial book helped A LOT with the physics..

I also had previously gone to an aviation magnet school in my past, where we had spent an entire semester on weather alone.. information that I've relied on ever since, and I found that book online and read it again too.. (turns out its the Aviation Weather text by the feds..)..

When it came time to take lessons, I still had to take a pre solo written from my instructor, and by no means did I know the answers to every question, but it made the lessons so much easier when you already had a strong grasp (or at least a major clue) about the academics involved..
 
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