IFR training questions

[Exocetid]

The FAR states:

The only required navigational equipment is that equipment appropriate to the ground facilities being used.

So, does this mean that you could have an IFR certified aircraft (nav equipment is not on the MEL), have an IFR ticket, file an IFR flight plan, and then do the whole thing with ATC telling you where to go?

I am assuming that the destination, as you "pop out of IMC" is VFR because I can't see how you could land without ADF, DME, VOR, GPS or whatever. Or could you?

So this begs the question, which may have been answered here before, apologies, what is the minimum (non-GPS please) nav equipment needed to reasonably fly IFR?

Would a single VOR do it (I guess assuming you are a Charles or Amelia)?

 

[dmccormack]

The FAR states:

The only required navigational equipment is that equipment appropriate to the ground facilities being used.

So, does this mean that you could have an IFR certified aircraft (nav equipment is not on the MEL), have an IFR ticket, file an IFR flight plan, and then do the whole thing with ATC telling you where to go?

I am assuming that the destination, as you "pop out of IMC" is VFR because I can't see how you could land without ADF, DME, VOR, GPS or whatever. Or could you?

So this begs the question, which may have been answered here before, apologies, what is the minimum (non-GPS please) nav equipment needed to reasonably fly IFR?

Would a single VOR do it (I guess assuming you are a Charles or Amelia)?

There is a minimum equipment list for IFR in the CFRs, and it is...?


And I wouldn't put Amelia Earhart as equal to Charles Lindbergh.

 

[Exocetid]

There is a minimum equipment list for IFR in the CFRs, and it is...?


And I wouldn't put Amelia Earhart as equal to Charles Lindbergh.

Very helpful, thanks Dan.

 

[gismo]

The FAR states:

The only required navigational equipment is that equipment appropriate to the ground facilities being used.

So, does this mean that you could have an IFR certified aircraft (nav equipment is not on the MEL), have an IFR ticket, file an IFR flight plan, and then do the whole thing with ATC telling you where to go?

I am assuming that the destination, as you "pop out of IMC" is VFR because I can't see how you could land without ADF, DME, VOR, GPS or whatever. Or could you?

So this begs the question, which may have been answered here before, apologies, what is the minimum (non-GPS please) nav equipment needed to reasonably fly IFR?

Would a single VOR do it (I guess assuming you are a Charles or Amelia)?

For the most part, the answer is no. If you file a flight plan you are expected to be able to fly the filed route without ATC assistance. OTOH, if you call ATC in the air and ask for a vector/climb to VFR on top, one could probably argue that no nav receivers are required for that.

 

[kevin47881]

Very helpful, thanks Dan.

If it causes you to check out the CFR's it most certainly was very helpful.

 

[Exocetid]

For the most part, the answer is no. If you file a flight plan you are expected to be able to fly the filed route without ATC assistance.

That answers my question, thanks.

The flight plan will presumably have waypoints, including the destination, and you will need some sort of (instrument) navigational aid to get you there. So, a single VOR would do it, although somewhat skill demanding. Likewise, at the destination, which you would have already specified along with the alternate, you would need whatever nav was specified by the approach you intended to use, again, a single VOR would work.

 

[poadeleted20]

The FAA answered that a couple of years ago, and I'm attaching the letter. Essentially, it says that while IFR flight with no IFR nav gear aboard is theoretically possible, it is unlikely to be accomplished in practice without violating other regulations besides 91.205(d)(2).

BTW, your quotation of that regulation is inaccurate. Here is the actual wording:

(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
...
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.

However, as you note, IFR flight with a single VOR receiver for nav is legal, and was done quite a bit many, many years ago. Of course, most folks today consider that an unacceptably risky choice unless there is a lot of good VMC around, but it remains legal and is still done by some folks (but not me anymore). My personal minimums these days include at least two IFR nav radios and two comm radios in a minimum of two electrically separate units (e.g., the Garmin GNS 530, Garmin SL40, and Narco Nav 122 in my Tiger, providing two separate nav and two separate comm radios in a total of three boxes).

 

[Exocetid]

The FAA answered that a couple of years ago, and I'm attaching the letter. Essentially, it says that while IFR flight with no IFR nav gear aboard is theoretically possible, it is unlikely to be accomplished in practice without violating other regulations besides 91.205(d)(2).

BTW, your quotation of that regulation is inaccurate. Here is the actual wording:
...

However, as you note, IFR flight with a single VOR receiver for nav is legal, and was done quite a bit many, many years ago. Of course, most folks today consider that an unacceptably risky choice unless there is a lot of good VMC around, but it remains legal and is still done by some folks (but not me anymore). My personal minimums these days include at least two IFR nav radios and two comm radios in a minimum of two electrically separate units (e.g., the Garmin GNS 530, Garmin SL40, and Narco Nav 122 in my Tiger, providing two separate nav and two separate comm radios in a total of three boxes).

I was quoting off some ground school study materials, but I knew about the need for comm, that is why I asked if ATC would just vector you from start to finish.

Nevertheless, it mystifies me that you could go from point A to point B in IMC with just a single VOR. My plane has two VORs, GS, MB receiver, DME, ADF, two nav/comms as well as a Garmin 295 for "situational awareness" and a Garmin 92 as a backup.

Thanks for clarifying this, my general IFR "situational awareness" has taken a big leap.