IFR student flight planning for fun

[benyflyguy]

I am getting ready to start my IFR flight training. my CFII is planning on doing 4-5 4 hour trips, which I am looking forward to. I live in NEPA and will be flying out of KHZL. He is pretty open to suggestions of where to go. My idea was to do routes that I plan on flying anyway... such as a trip up to KLWM (where my sister lives), or KOXB and 26N (places we vacation), or KIGX (more family). I am working on my vetting for the FRZ and would love to train getting into KCGS(more family) but might not have paperwork done in time.
My instructor, and planned safety pilot, seem pretty low key about going anywhere so I was wondering if anybody had any ideas for some fun little trips that may have some unique approaches/departures that would be a good learning experience...

 

[DesertNomad]

Do you have an autopilot? 4 hours hand-flying under the hood all at once is probably more than you want to do. I think closer airports with more approaches would be a better use of your time.

 

[James331]

Do you have an autopilot? 4 hours hand-flying under the hood all at once is probably more than you want to do. I think closer airports with more approaches would be a better use of your time.

4hrs straight line flying wouldn't be how I'd invest my $$ in IFR training.

 

[benyflyguy]

Do you have an autopilot? 4 hours hand-flying under the hood all at once is probably more than you want to do. I think closer airports with more approaches would be a better use of your time.

Yes. It’s a c182 with autopilot- holds altitude and tracks gps or hsi bug. I imagine there’s going to be some approaches and holds along the way to a destination.
I imagine we are going to shoot a lot of semi local approaches to simulate some the of alternate places I’d be going to.

 

[TommyG]

Is this his idea for those trips? Really seems you miss out on the basic fundamentals. Most of IFR training is learning approaches. Is this guy a time builder looking to go to the airlines on your dime?

 

[DesertNomad]

My average IFR training flight was 1.8 hours, three (sometimes 4) approaches (VOR, ILS, GPS) and at least one hold. Flying an ILS to 200' and figuring out hold entry patterns is much more important (and harder) than cruising along for several hours. The only time I really got to fly at cruise was on my IFR cross country.

 

[TK211X]

So a KAP140 sounds like. I think it’s strange that the CFII wants to dive in with many hours of XC time. I would make sure he isn’t milking you for time. My only cross country that lasted over 3 hours was for the long XC requirement. And near the end of my training where I really had everything perfect and we needed to burn time so we went to Key West. Just because.

 

[benyflyguy]

Is this his idea for those trips? Really seems you miss out on the basic fundamentals. Most of IFR training is learning approaches. Is this guy a time builder looking to go to the airlines on your dime?

He already flies a 757 so I’m thinking not for that reason. I think it’s because with both our schedules it makes more sense to do longer times. I may have given the wrong impression reading my post again. We are planning To go places with several stops, missed approaches, holds, ect... my question was merely to see if there are some cool places to head that I didn’t mention.
When I took my first crack at IFR was in the late 90’s- early 2000’s when gps was something that attached to your leg. Training, for me, was done very piecemeal, two lessons of just holding. Two lessons of tracking.. lesson of unusual attitudes, lessons on just approaches...

This ideas is to make it more real world I guess. Every trip file a flight plan and go all over.

 

[AggieMike88]

@Phil Benyo --- For the first few flights, doing these 4 to 5 hour long journeys isn't the most productive use of your time or training dollars as the first flights.

Yes, there is a cross country time and experience requirement, but that can come later.

In my opinion, the first few flights should include the following

1. Getting comfortable flying with a view limiting device.
2. the basics of instrument attitude flying. While wearing the view limiting device, practice turns to a heading, climbs and descents, intercepting a VOR radial, etc.
3. Developing the Pitch Power Performance numbers for your aircraft
4. Developing your scan
5. Discovering how getting tasked focus can kill your scan. And learning how to deal with that.
6. Layering in the radio skills that are required of the IFR pilot.

Also, doing approaches right away are not the proper way either.

I agree with the others that multiple hours of cruise flight while "under the hood" is not valuable at your stage. Time with your instructor needs to be spent learning how to manage the "busy times" of takeoff, ascent, descent, approach, landing and emergencies.

Also, these initial lessons are going to be a lot for you all at once. Which is why most instructors I know will limit the lessons to about 1.5 -2.0 hours in the air. If you go too much beyond that, your mental fatigue level can really slow down your learning ability.


It might be worth mentioning asking your CFI for his WRITTEN syllabus that has information of what tasks and skills are to be learned for each lesson. If he does not have a written lesson plan, then how are either of you going to know that the time is well spent and how you are progressing (between the lines? he is wasting your time and your training budget).

 

[AggieMike88]

This ideas is to make it more real world I guess. Every trip file a flight plan and go all over.

Again, useful... but not in the early stage. Reserve this for the last 15% before prepping for the checkride.

 

[benyflyguy]

Again, useful... but not in the early stage. Reserve this for the last 15% before prepping for the checkride.

Thanks for all the info and I will keep the points you made in mind going forward! I realize now that In the beginning the shorter flights will be more important.

 

[AggieMike88]

Thanks for all the info and I will keep the points you made in mind going forward! I realize now that In the beginning the shorter flights will be more important.

Several of the training systems out there such as Gleim, Jepp, Cessna, and others, include written training plans and student progress folders. So if the CFI-I doesn't have his own written syllabus created, you can suggest using one of those.

@bobmrg --- Is there a lesson plan available to accompany your Complete Advanced Pilot book?

 

[bobmrg]

Several of the training systems out there such as Gleim, Jepp, Cessna, and others, include written training plans and student progress folders. So if the CFI-I doesn't have his own written syllabus created, you can suggest using one of those.

@bobmrg --- Is there a lesson plan available to accompany your Complete Advanced Pilot book?

http://www.asa2fly.com/Pilots-Manual-Instrument-Rating-Syllabus-PDF-P3806C413.aspx (not an adjunct to my book, but useful nonetheless.

Also Appendix B in the Instrument Flying Handbook.

Bob

 

[GMascelli]

I like the idea, if you're knocking out approaches all along the way. I also believe that staying local to knock out rapid fire approaches helps with the water hose effect. I found that once on the long cross country and since getting my ticket everything seems slower and the flow or process is easier. Then again my training CFII loved to torture me with partial panels, weird scenarios and role play ATC constantly. I wish he still lived close by, I always felt at the top of my game after flying with him.

Good luck finishing up!