IFR routing in New York City area

[mike21951]

I was flying ifr over New Jersey yesterday in a single when I overheard a conversation between a Northbound twin and McGuire Approach. The twin was looking for a routing over NJ and NY rather than off the Jersey Coast. The gist of the controller's reply was that New York Tracon would not accept twins over New York City. He repeated this statement several times. The only alternatives offered the twin were a route off the Jersey Coast or a route over Eastern Pennsylvania and North of NYC.

There were no tfrs in NY as far as I know. Anyone have an explanation?

I hope it's not a security thing. (Especially useless since the vfr corridor up the Hudson River is still open and doesn't discriminate against twins.)

 

[Ed Guthrie]

I was flying ifr over New Jersey yesterday in a single when I overheard a conversation between a Northbound twin and McGuire Approach. The twin was looking for a routing over NJ and NY rather than off the Jersey Coast. The gist of the controller's reply was that New York Tracon would not accept twins over New York City. He repeated this statement several times. The only alternatives offered the twin were a route off the Jersey Coast or a route over Eastern Pennsylvania and North of NYC.

There were no tfrs in NY as far as I know. Anyone have an explanation?

I hope it's not a security thing. (Especially useless since the vfr corridor up the Hudson River is still open and doesn't discriminate against twins.)

AFAIK, no, it is not a security issue. NY approach doesn't want any GA traffic operating within NY airspace. Left to their own choices, NY approach would prefer to push all GA traffic either off shore or around the far west side. The distinction between twins and singles is a begrudging safety concession for the singles. Singles are allowed to make the transition via Colts Neck and JFK versus pushing a single engine aircraft far out over the Atlantic.

 

[poadeleted20]

AFAIK, no, it is not a security issue. NY approach doesn't want any GA traffic operating within NY airspace. Left to their own choices, NY approach would prefer to push all GA traffic either off shore or around the far west side. The distinction between twins and singles is a begrudging safety concession for the singles. Singles are allowed to make the transition via Colts Neck and JFK versus pushing a single engine aircraft far out over the Atlantic.

Ed's got it, although it's not limited to GA traffic, and it's not the City itself that's at issue. The problem is the complex 3-dimensional pattern of jets going in and out of JFK, EWR, and LGA. They just can't find a hole to put anything else through there unless there's no other choice, and it doesn't matter if you're an Apache or a G-V going to FRG, they'll send you around that mess. If you saw a graphic of all the arrival/departure routes for those three airports, you'd understand the problem. OTOH, if you go VFR, you can go over that mess at 7500/8500 (top of B-space is 7000) with no problem at all.

 

[gismo]

OTOH, if you go VFR, you can go over that mess at 7500/8500 (top of B-space is 7000) with no problem at all.

You mean except for the occasional 747 running you down from behind?

 

[mike21951]

Thanks for the insight.

Of course, vfr you can go under it as well with a much better view.

 

[Skip Miller]

You mean except for the occasional 747 running you down from behind?

I've been over the NY Bravo at 8500 DPK - Colts Neck with flight following, listening to NY Approach vector the 747's around me. Taking off on Runway 31L, climbing left turns to a northeast heading would have them passing to the northwest of me. BTW a very impressive climb rate on those beasts heavily loaded, hot summer day, aiming for Europe and beyond.

-Skip