IFR requirments for getting license/ Instructor ?s

[Marsh_R]

I've just started my IFR training and need a little help:

My first instructor, who signed off for me to take (and passed!) the written exam, has questionable judgement: My first flight we took off in below minimum weather conditions, shot approaches, and then circled for 30 minutes while we waited for the weather to improve to minimums (300' above the ground and 1/2 vis.) and then we landed. It didn't feel right at the time, and talking with other experienced pilots, they felt it was bad decision to fly.

So I start flying with a much older instructor who's a really nice guy, but can't figure out my KLN 94 and is telling me the wrong info on training( He's saying I need 20 hours, at a minimum with him, and the balance can be with an instrument rated pilot acting as safety pilot. I believe it's 15 hours with an instructor, and any pilot with a valid PPL can act as safety pilot for the balance, not to mention that some of the IFR time can be on a simulator.

The first instructor is a really young, seemingly bright guy, but I've heard a couple of stories from the line guys where he's taken new students up in IFR conditions for a discovery flight.

Would you stick with the older guy, go back to the younger guy, or find someone else?

 

[matthammer]

There's really no easy answer to that question. But if you're not comfortable with either of them, I say find someone else.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'd say stay away from the first instructor, but not for the reasons discussed. My big concern is that he's not using an appropriate syllabus for your training. You should have been taught basic instrument flying, basic radio nav, and basic IFR procedures before you did any approaches. The fact that your first flight lesson was shooting approaches tells me that he is inexperienced and disorganized -- and that's a bad combination.

As for the second, if he said what you said he did, he was not quite correct (although in some circumstances, the safety pilot is required to hold an instrument rating), but his lack of familiarity with the KLN-94 isn't a show-stopper if he can learn the unit.

Between the two, I think you're probably better off with the more experienced instructor as long as he is better organized and can learn the 94. But there are still other fish in the sea...including the outfit for which I work (Professional Instrument Courses).

 

[jesse]

I've just started my IFR training and need a little help:

My first instructor, who signed off for me to take (and passed!) the written exam, has questionable judgement: My first flight we took off in below minimum weather conditions, shot approaches, and then circled for 30 minutes while we waited for the weather to improve to minimums (300' above the ground and 1/2 vis.) and then we landed. It didn't feel right at the time, and talking with other experienced pilots, they felt it was bad decision to fly.

I'm not going to judge him. Depending on the conditions and your escape routes that could be done with a reasonable quantity of risk providing a pretty valuable learning experience.

The biggest problem is that you just need to find someone you can trust. The very nature of instrument training will have you pushing the envelopes of where you were previously comfortable as a non-instrument pilot.

I'd say stay away from the first instructor, but not for the reasons discussed. My big concern is that he's not using an appropriate syllabus for your training. You should have been taught basic instrument flying, basic radio nav, and basic IFR procedures before you did any approaches. The fact that your first flight lesson was shooting approaches tells me that he is inexperienced and disorganized -- and that's a bad combination.

I've had first instrument lessons terminate with a missed approach at minimums in IMC. In that case though, 90% of our flying was spent working on fundamentals above the ground fog in VMC. No reason to cancel an entire lesson just because you need an instrument approach at the end.

 

[poadeleted20]

I've had first instrument lessons terminate with a missed approach at minimums in IMC. In that case though, 90% of our flying was spent working on fundamentals above the ground fog in VMC. No reason to cancel an entire lesson just because you need an instrument approach at the end.

Agreed. But the OP said the lesson was spent shooting approaches, and that's not the way it should be.

 

[dell30rb]

My first instructor, who signed off for me to take (and passed!) the written exam, has questionable judgement: My first flight we took off in below minimum weather conditions, shot approaches, and then circled for 30 minutes while we waited for the weather to improve to minimums (300' above the ground and 1/2 vis.) and then we landed. It didn't feel right at the time, and talking with other experienced pilots, they felt it was bad decision to fly.

I wish I had that treatment, but if I were the instructor I would not take a student up in those conditions until he was pretty far along. Not just because he would not learn anything, but also for safety reasons. A student suddenly getting disoriented while at 400 AGL is going to require a perfect response by the instructor

 

[jesse]

I wish I had that treatment, but if I were the instructor I would not take a student up in those conditions until he was pretty far along. Not just because he would not learn anything, but also for safety reasons. A student suddenly getting disoriented while at 400 AGL is going to require a perfect response by the instructor

As a CFII, if I'm comfortable in the airplane to be flown, I wouldn't hesitate putting a 0 time person in the left seat with a departure and approach at minimums. Granted I'd probably be having to come on the controls constantly and that person would likely be overwhelmed, frustrated, and not learning a single thing. But from a safety perspective it'd be a non-issue.

 

[denverpilot]

I've had first instrument lessons terminate with a missed approach at minimums in IMC. In that case though, 90% of our flying was spent working on fundamentals above the ground fog in VMC. No reason to cancel an entire lesson just because you need an instrument approach at the end.

I think... I remember that flight.

"You should take off that hood and see something... Where's the airport?"

"Should be over there... oh..."

"What's your plan, now?"

Won't ever forget that. Nor the two approaches.