IFR for Older Pilots

Terry

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Messages
738
Location
LaCrosse
Display Name

Display name:
Terry
Hi everyone,

I earned my instrument rating at 61 years old. It was hard and it was tough.

I started first with a young instructor teaching a ground class. I was lost through much of the ground school portion. I was able to take my written and pass with a 98% but I had memorized all the correct answers and still did not fully understand the instrument rating.

I went up a total of 3 times with this young instructor. The 2nd time up was at night, under the hood, and we flew right into a thunderstorm about 3 miles out of the airport. I took the hood off and said, "Let's get this plane on the ground!" He agreed, took the airplane, and we landed and taxied back to the hangar. He did not charge me for that time.

The next time up, he was busy texting and seemed to be disconnected from the training lesson. We landed and I never went up again. In his defense, maybe because I was old enough to be his grandfather, he thought I knew what to do.

I had a difficult time learning the GPS. Bendix/King. So, I took a CFII friend with me and he flew while I played with the GPS and I flew and he helped me with the GPS. Once I got the GPS down, 90% of my IFR problems went away. It took a tremendous work load off of me when I finally mastered the GPS.

Well, my written expired and I studied again with King's and with ASF and with Sporty's. Retook the written exam and made a 92% but this time I understood what I was doing.

Three years had passed and I knew if I didn't get this IFR training completed, I would be forced to quit for good.

I called PIC. My instructor came out of Garland, Texas. He had 8500 hours and was very calm and relaxed. (6500 was dual instruction)

The first day we went over items on the simulator, mainly finding myself, and figuring out where I was in respect to VOR's and airports.

The next day we started flying in the airplane. The weather was cold, freezing fog, very windy, and the roughest weather I have ever encountered. On one occasion, I had my hood come off from being bounced around in the airplane.

The first 2 days it was so rough that I could barely control the airplane. After flying all day I would have trouble walking and was swearing I was going to quit. I became really frustrated one time and told my instructor if he could do a better job to take the controls and show me how. He took the controls and within 3 seconds it was smooth and stable. (show off :D)

The 3rd day it finally "clicked" and the airplane started cooperating. For the 1st time I was ahead of the airplane and was comfortable flying in IMC. Now, he said, let's go do some approaches.

My first ILS was in fog with a three hundred foot ceiling and 1 mile visibility. I nailed it. From then on it was down hill.

He stayed another 2 days at my request and 1 month later I passed my IR check-ride. The day of my check-ride the wind was 25 to 35 and gusting to 45. My examiner asked if I wanted to perform a checkride in these conditions and I said yes. Fortunately the wind was right down the runway.

I had a 1 1/2 oral and a 2 hour check ride.

What I rambled on so long for is that us older pilots take a little longer to learn the bells and whistles. Personally, I fly IFR just fine without a GPS. I am not used to all the latest gadgets. Frankly, the less I have to look at and adjust and set the better off I am.

For me, having my ducks all lined up BEFORE I fly in IMC is critical. If it is too bad, I put the flight off. I keep my minimums to 800' and 3 miles.

Now, I haven't flown IFR enough so that is why I decided to take a retired friend to sit in the right seat until I get my confidence back.

Yes sir, an OLD dog can learn a NEW Trick.

Terry
 
Congratulations!!!

You have to be on the top of the world!
 
Congratulations!!!

You have to be on the top of the world!

Sorry for the mis-lead guys.

I got my IR in 2007 at age 61. I am now 65 and was reminiscing.

I just recently decided to start flying IFR again because I am seriously considering earning my CFI.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mis-lead. However, earning my IR was an extreme highlight for me.

Terry
 
Terry, part of the struggle you describe is probably the slower rate at which we learn as we age, but some of it just sounds like a mismatch of instructional technique to the needs of the student.

I can't help but think that there has to be a better way to learn to use a GPS-based panel than doing it with the simultaneous workload and huge expense of doing it in an actual flying aircraft. Panel manufacturers should find it of value to offer free or low-cost online practice options for getting the buttons, knobs and screens figured out before we actually fly. I would also think it would also have great sales potential to provide a way to fully demo this stuff before we decide which one to buy.

(Or, maybe they have, and I'm just not up to speed on what's out there!)
 
Terry, part of the struggle you describe is probably the slower rate at which we learn as we age, but some of it just sounds like a mismatch of instructional technique to the needs of the student.

I can't help but think that there has to be a better way to learn to use a GPS-based panel than doing it with the simultaneous workload and huge expense of doing it in an actual flying aircraft. Panel manufacturers should find it of value to offer free or low-cost online practice options for getting the buttons, knobs and screens figured out before we actually fly. I would also think it would also have great sales potential to provide a way to fully demo this stuff before we decide which one to buy.

(Or, maybe they have, and I'm just not up to speed on what's out there!)

Paul,

Learning the GPS was my biggest struggle. However, with that said, understanding the fundamentals and procedures of IFR flight was the second. I honestly did not comprehend the intricacies of IMC flight, nor did I understand the necessity of knowing procedures and protocol.

We have a tendency to be awful hard on the CFI's out there. Too young, impatient, bad judgement, and a lot of other of things. My problem wsn't so much flying as it was relating and understanding what was expected of me. The CFI assumed because I was older I was aware of what I needed to do.

The CFI from PIC had me straightened out and flying well in no time because he was able to see my problem and give me specific instructions. He did not let me go to the next step until I mastered the step I was on.

However, after saying all of that. If you are a senior citizen and considering getting your IR, by all means, go for it. If I can do it so can you. I learned, 3 years and a lot of money, but I didn't quit. I conquered what few people have ever done.

Terry
 
We old ****s can still get it done, I turn 61 next Saturday and passed my IR ride on 3/21 and got to use it Wednesday on the way down to Sun-n-Fun.

Congrats to you!!! :D
 
61 Ain't old dammit. Neither is 65.




That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.
 
Hi everyone,

I earned my instrument rating at 61 years old. It was hard and it was tough.

I started first with a young instructor teaching a ground class. I was lost through much of the ground school portion. I was able to take my written and pass with a 98% but I had memorized all the correct answers and still did not fully understand the instrument rating.

I went up a total of 3 times with this young instructor. The 2nd time up was at night, under the hood, and we flew right into a thunderstorm about 3 miles out of the airport. I took the hood off and said, "Let's get this plane on the ground!" He agreed, took the airplane, and we landed and taxied back to the hangar. He did not charge me for that time.

The next time up, he was busy texting and seemed to be disconnected from the training lesson. We landed and I never went up again. In his defense, maybe because I was old enough to be his grandfather, he thought I knew what to do.

I had a difficult time learning the GPS. Bendix/King. So, I took a CFII friend with me and he flew while I played with the GPS and I flew and he helped me with the GPS. Once I got the GPS down, 90% of my IFR problems went away. It took a tremendous work load off of me when I finally mastered the GPS.

Well, my written expired and I studied again with King's and with ASF and with Sporty's. Retook the written exam and made a 92% but this time I understood what I was doing.

Three years had passed and I knew if I didn't get this IFR training completed, I would be forced to quit for good.

I called PIC. My instructor came out of Garland, Texas. He had 8500 hours and was very calm and relaxed. (6500 was dual instruction)

The first day we went over items on the simulator, mainly finding myself, and figuring out where I was in respect to VOR's and airports.

The next day we started flying in the airplane. The weather was cold, freezing fog, very windy, and the roughest weather I have ever encountered. On one occasion, I had my hood come off from being bounced around in the airplane.

The first 2 days it was so rough that I could barely control the airplane. After flying all day I would have trouble walking and was swearing I was going to quit. I became really frustrated one time and told my instructor if he could do a better job to take the controls and show me how. He took the controls and within 3 seconds it was smooth and stable. (show off :D)

The 3rd day it finally "clicked" and the airplane started cooperating. For the 1st time I was ahead of the airplane and was comfortable flying in IMC. Now, he said, let's go do some approaches.

My first ILS was in fog with a three hundred foot ceiling and 1 mile visibility. I nailed it. From then on it was down hill.

He stayed another 2 days at my request and 1 month later I passed my IR check-ride. The day of my check-ride the wind was 25 to 35 and gusting to 45. My examiner asked if I wanted to perform a checkride in these conditions and I said yes. Fortunately the wind was right down the runway.

I had a 1 1/2 oral and a 2 hour check ride.

What I rambled on so long for is that us older pilots take a little longer to learn the bells and whistles. Personally, I fly IFR just fine without a GPS. I am not used to all the latest gadgets. Frankly, the less I have to look at and adjust and set the better off I am.

For me, having my ducks all lined up BEFORE I fly in IMC is critical. If it is too bad, I put the flight off. I keep my minimums to 800' and 3 miles.

Now, I haven't flown IFR enough so that is why I decided to take a retired friend to sit in the right seat until I get my confidence back.

Yes sir, an OLD dog can learn a NEW Trick.

Terry
Texting while giving a lesson is never ok, but why would he assume you knew what you were doing (IFR wise)? You went to him for training on something you did not know how to do and by the sound of it, he failed to provide that training.
 
Thanks for the write up Terry, and CONGRATULATIONS!

I will be 63 next month and my goal is to get my IR this year.
 
Sorry for the mis-lead guys.

I got my IR in 2007 at age 61. I am now 65 and was reminiscing.

I just recently decided to start flying IFR again because I am seriously considering earning my CFI.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mis-lead. However, earning my IR was an extreme highlight for me.

Terry

Terry, GREAT! what is needed are more CFIs with a vast range of experience. Your age and learning experience will make you a good CFI. The texting and flying into the TS are not symptoms of "young" CFIs but rather immature CFIs. We have some great Young and Mature CFIs here on POA, but like they say different styles for different folks.
 
Terry, GREAT! what is needed are more CFIs with a vast range of experience. Your age and learning experience will make you a good CFI. The texting and flying into the TS are not symptoms of "young" CFIs but rather immature CFIs. We have some great Young and Mature CFIs here on POA, but like they say different styles for different folks.

Thanks Adam,

I made the decision today to get my Commercial Certificate and then on to a CFI.

I have a few questions and will post them in another thread.

Terry
 
I'll be 57 this year, got my IR last year.

I'm working on my comercial now while I wait on a medical Special Issuance. While I can't fly as PIC, I can fly as a student.

I also try to fly at least one set of IAP per month with a good safety pilot (usually a CFI).

I try to review the questions on two pages of the ASA oral exam guide for PP and IR every work day at lunch. I've really learned a lot doing this.
When it's part of my daily review I don't gloss over anything.
 
It's great when someone overcomes adversity to reach a goal. So many people try something once and give up.
 
Okay you two young ladies! Be careful when weighing in on a subject about us old coots!:D You're both being nice with your comments, so keep it that way.:nono: No rubbing it in about us being old coots.:nono:

It's too bad the young people I work with aren't so nice about the sensitive subject of old age.:wink2:
 
Okay you two young ladies! Be careful when weighing in on a subject about us old coots!:D You're both being nice with your comments, so keep it that way.:nono: No rubbing it in about us being old coots.:nono:

It's too bad the young people I work with aren't so nice about the sensitive subject of old age.:wink2:

Wait now I have to be careful with you guys? That is just re-inforcing the stereotype! You have to show how tough you are in your old age by either:

(a) Ignoring my mean comments

OR

(b) Throwing witty mean comments right back at me.
 
Congratulations, Terry! I got my instrument rating last year at age 61 and had a young "texting" CFI as well. I always found that disconcerting as I knew his eyes weren't outside the cockpit. Lots of turkey buzzards near our field always make me nervous......

Just so you'll know that age is not a limit, I had a chance to do spin recovery and emergency recovery procedures from Bill Finagin yesterday in his Pitts. I didn't ask, but rumor has it he has me by a decade and he is still flying like a youngster.

Here is a picture to prove it happened. I'm the one in the front with the giant grin after +7 and -3 on the g meter......

photo28.jpg

photo28.jpg
 
I was wondering if I should attempt it at 58 Y/O... You may have sold me!:D

I was coming back from Clayton, NM and going to Hays, KS. We stayed late and the sun set as we started a 2 hour flight to Garden City and then to Hays.

It was dark and then over Ulysses, KS., I could see the Garden City lights. I filed a VFR flight plan. All was smooth and then I lost Garden City lights. Then they came back and I figured I flew through a cloud. Then I lost Ulysses lights but they came back.

Then I lost ALL lights, strobe flashing off the clouds, so I dropped down to a lower altitude and could see Ulysses and Garden City lights again. However, I was too low to reach Wichita radio.

I am familiar with the area so I headed for the Garden City airport and just barely staying low enough to be safe. The Garden City tower was closed and I didn't know the frequency to get the runway lights on, so I kept approaching while my wife found the frequency. I was on one mile final when I got the runway lights turned on. Landed and spent the night in Garden City.

I said, I will never do this again and when I got back to Hays, Kansas, I started IFR training.

I also used that experience to get my "ducks in a row" and start flying like a professional instead of some hayseed hick.

The IR ticket is well worth the effort. Now, I still evaluate the weather but I make the go/no go decision.

I usually keep my minimums to 800' and 3 miles visibility. I am comfortable with that.

Terry
 
I hope you do become a CFI and then proceed to never text during your lessons.

I need to learn how to text and not look at the phone pad. :D

My mother in law was sooooooooo old, her social security number was three. :rofl:

Thanks for the well wishes. I have started my commercial study back up again.

Terry
 
Congratulations, Terry! I got my instrument rating last year at age 61 and had a young "texting" CFI as well. I always found that disconcerting as I knew his eyes weren't outside the cockpit. Lots of turkey buzzards near our field always make me nervous......

Just so you'll know that age is not a limit, I had a chance to do spin recovery and emergency recovery procedures from Bill Finagin yesterday in his Pitts. I didn't ask, but rumor has it he has me by a decade and he is still flying like a youngster.

Here is a picture to prove it happened. I'm the one in the front with the giant grin after +7 and -3 on the g meter......

photo28.jpg

photo28.jpg

When I found out I get to do "spin training" I got excited. I have been trying to get some spin training and light aerobatics.

Congratulations!

Terry
 
Wait now I have to be careful with you guys? That is just re-inforcing the stereotype! You have to show how tough you are in your old age by either:

(a) Ignoring my mean comments

OR

(b) Throwing witty mean comments right back at me.

I can handle it. Give me your best shot anytime. :D
 
I was coming back from Clayton, NM and going to Hays, KS. We stayed late and the sun set as we started a 2 hour flight to Garden City and then to Hays.

It was dark and then over Ulysses, KS., I could see the Garden City lights. I filed a VFR flight plan. All was smooth and then I lost Garden City lights. Then they came back and I figured I flew through a cloud. Then I lost Ulysses lights but they came back.

Then I lost ALL lights, strobe flashing off the clouds, so I dropped down to a lower altitude and could see Ulysses and Garden City lights again. However, I was too low to reach Wichita radio.

I am familiar with the area so I headed for the Garden City airport and just barely staying low enough to be safe. The Garden City tower was closed and I didn't know the frequency to get the runway lights on, so I kept approaching while my wife found the frequency. I was on one mile final when I got the runway lights turned on. Landed and spent the night in Garden City.

I said, I will never do this again and when I got back to Hays, Kansas, I started IFR training.

I also used that experience to get my "ducks in a row" and start flying like a professional instead of some hayseed hick.

The IR ticket is well worth the effort. Now, I still evaluate the weather but I make the go/no go decision.

I usually keep my minimums to 800' and 3 miles visibility. I am comfortable with that.

Terry

Yup, sounds like you had a real wake-up call. I cancel too many trips for marginal weather, so I think I'm gonna get some finances in order and get started.

I think that 800' and 3 miles sounds reasonable, and is about where I would be too, I think.
 
Back
Top