IFR Flight Plan to VFR airports

Piloto

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Piloto
What is the approach procedure when the destination airport has no instrument approach procedure at all. I assume you descend to 1000ft and continue to the destination if there are VFR conditions. If no VFR you fly to the alternate. Do I am right on this?

José
 
I would cancel the plan once the airport is in sight. If it's still IMC, go to the alternate.
 
What is the approach procedure when the destination airport has no instrument approach procedure at all.
The procedure is to obtain a clearance to descend to the minimum vectoring altitude. If before reaching that altitude you get 500 below the lowest cloud deck, you can cancel IFR and land VFR. If you get the airport in sight while still operating under IFR, you report that and request a visual approach, then cancel on the ground. Keep in mind at all times that there is no "missed approach" procedure for a visual approach, so once you cancel IFR or accept a visual approach clearance, you are obligated to remain clear of clouds/remain VFR (as applicable) until/unless you obtain a new IFR clearance from ATC.
I assume you descend to 1000ft and continue to the destination if there are VFR conditions. If no VFR you fly to the alternate. Do I am right on this?
No, you are not.
 
I think you could request a contact approach if you manage to get the airport in sight at some point and have at least one mile visibility--you wouldn't necessarily need VFR minimums to land.
 
I think you could request a contact approach ...
You can ask for it, but it should not be forthcoming unless the controller is willing to violate an FAA Order. A published approach is a requirement for ATC to approve a contact approach.
 
You can ask for it, but it should not be forthcoming unless the controller is willing to violate an FAA Order. A published approach is a requirement for ATC to approve a contact approach.

Ah, thanks.
 
I think you could request a contact approach if you manage to get the airport in sight at some point and have at least one mile visibility--you wouldn't necessarily need VFR minimums to land.
Contact approaches are available only at airports that have IAPs, OTOH airports without IAPs typically are class "G" uncontrolled airspace below 1200' agl where VFR minimums are 1 mile/clear of cloud, same as minimums required for a contact approach.
 
What is the approach procedure when the destination airport has no instrument approach procedure at all. I assume you descend to 1000ft and continue to the destination if there are VFR conditions. If no VFR you fly to the alternate. Do I am right on this?

You would be cleared down to the minimum IFR altitude. If you're in VMC you can be cleared for a visual approach or cancel IFR. If you're in IMC you go somewhere else.
 
I think you could request a contact approach if you manage to get the airport in sight at some point and have at least one mile visibility--you wouldn't necessarily need VFR minimums to land.

A contact approach is not available at an airport without an operating IAP.
 
Contact approaches are available only at airports that have IAPs, OTOH airports without IAPs typically are class "G" uncontrolled airspace below 1200' agl where VFR minimums are 1 mile/clear of cloud, same as minimums required for a contact approach.

But the minimum IFR altitude will be above 1200' AGL.
 
What is the approach procedure when the destination airport has no instrument approach procedure at all. I assume you descend to 1000ft and continue to the destination if there are VFR conditions. If no VFR you fly to the alternate. Do I am right on this?

José
ATC will issue you his minimum instrument altitude for that area (that's the lowest altitude he can assign) or ........he might issue (you might have to request) a cruise clearance allowing you to descend to the lowest altitude described in FAR 91.177(a)(2)(i)or(ii). Upon reaching that altitude if you are in VFR conditions you typically cancel and proceed to your destination OTOH if you're still in the cloud you advise ATC and proceed to your alternate.
 
Just wanted to say the same thing for the forth time worded differently. Contact approaches are only available at airports that have at least one IAP.
 
You can ask for it, but it should not be forthcoming unless the controller is willing to violate an FAA Order. A published approach is a requirement for ATC to approve a contact approach.

Haven't really thought about this but it sounds like a contact approach can be approved even if the requesting aircraft isn't equipped to fly any of the published approaches. That's interesting and offers some nice options.
 
Haven't really thought about this but it sounds like a contact approach can be approved even if the requesting aircraft isn't equipped to fly any of the published approaches. That's interesting and offers some nice options.
Yeah, if you think it thru' I suspect the contact approach is designed to keep you on your IFR clearance thus providing separation from other IFR aircraft while you're operating 1 mile/clear of cloud in controlled airspace?
 
Haven't really thought about this but it sounds like a contact approach can be approved even if the requesting aircraft isn't equipped to fly any of the published approaches. That's interesting and offers some nice options.
I wouldn't expect the FAA Chief Counsel to agree with that interpretation, and I know Flight Standards won't buy it on an IR practical test.
 
I wouldn't expect the FAA Chief Counsel to agree with that interpretation, and I know Flight Standards won't buy it on an IR practical test.
So, why would you need to be equipped to fly the published IAP in order to accept a contact approach?
 
The procedure is to obtain a clearance to descend to the minimum vectoring altitude. If before reaching that altitude you get 500 below the lowest cloud deck, you can cancel IFR and land VFR. If you get the airport in sight while still operating under IFR, you report that and request a visual approach, then cancel on the ground. Keep in mind at all times that there is no "missed approach" procedure for a visual approach, so once you cancel IFR or accept a visual approach clearance, you are obligated to remain clear of clouds/remain VFR (as applicable) until/unless you obtain a new IFR clearance from ATC.
No, you are not.

Depending where you are operating, the MVA may be rather high. Another option is an IAP to a nearby airport, cancel IFR and transition VFR to the airport without an approach.
 
The reason for my question is because I fly to some airports that have no approach at all. But using the OBS function on the G530 I can line up with the runway with the same precision as a LOC approach. And adjusting the course on the G560 HSI to the runway alignment it gives me lateral and vertical guidance just like an ILS. I found this feature very useful specially at night were these airports have limited runway lighting. From what I read here it appears that there is no specific MDA for this situation. Does that means I can cancel IFR at 200ft AGL? In most of these airport there is no ATC access via VHF on the ground so I would have to cancel before getting on the ground.

How would you get departure clearance where there is no ATC VHF or cell phone access.

José
 
Why do you need to be 500 feet below the clouds to accept a visual approach clearance while still IFR, when special VFR minimums are clear of clouds? Can you just ask them to switch you from IFR to special VFR (assuming controlled airspace, which is unlikely if there's no approach anyway)?
 
The reason for my question is because I fly to some airports that have no approach at all. But using the OBS function on the G530 I can line up with the runway with the same precision as a LOC approach. And adjusting the course on the G560 HSI to the runway alignment it gives me lateral and vertical guidance just like an ILS. I found this feature very useful specially at night were these airports have limited runway lighting. From what I read here it appears that there is no specific MDA for this situation. Does that means I can cancel IFR at 200ft AGL? In most of these airport there is no ATC access via VHF on the ground so I would have to cancel before getting on the ground.
Suggest you read FAR 91.177
 
I wouldn't expect the FAA Chief Counsel to agree with that interpretation, and I know Flight Standards won't buy it on an IR practical test.

I suspect you say this because a contact approach would probably be able to be requested only under less than vmc and the requesting aircraft will probably be descending on a published approach when the request is made. The guidance to controllers doesn't say any of this but simple logic dictates in VMC you will get a visual approach; otherwise, you will be on a published IAP.

That check?
 
.......................
How would you get departure clearance where there is no ATC VHF or cell phone access.

José
You can do it the old way (find the closest telephone and try to negotiate a long enuf' void time to get back to the airplane and take off before the void time expires) or if that's not possible start up and call in the blind on the ATC freq for somebody overhead to relay for you.
 
Why do you need to be 500 feet below the clouds to accept a visual approach clearance while still IFR, when special VFR minimums are clear of clouds? Can you just ask them to switch you from IFR to special VFR (assuming controlled airspace, which is unlikely if there's no approach anyway)?

You need a ceiling of at least 500 ft above the MVA/MIA to VECTOR an aircraft for a visual approach. Cloud distance requirements are not necessary to clear you. However, if you were to cancel IFR immediately after clearance then you'd need to be at the required cloud distance criteria in class E.
 
I suspect you say this because a contact approach would probably be able to be requested only under less than vmc and the requesting aircraft will probably be descending on a published approach when the request is made. The guidance to controllers doesn't say any of this but simple logic dictates in VMC you will get a visual approach; otherwise, you will be on a published IAP.

That check?
I'd guess most of the times a contact approach is requested is before an instrument approach is begun and to save time by bypassing the instrument approach.
 
The reason for my question is because I fly to some airports that have no approach at all. But using the OBS function on the G530 I can line up with the runway with the same precision as a LOC approach. And adjusting the course on the G560 HSI to the runway alignment it gives me lateral and vertical guidance just like an ILS. I found this feature very useful specially at night were these airports have limited runway lighting. From what I read here it appears that there is no specific MDA for this situation. Does that means I can cancel IFR at 200ft AGL?

Of course, you can cancel at anytime in VFR conditions.
 
Why do you need to be 500 feet below the clouds to accept a visual approach clearance while still IFR, when special VFR minimums are clear of clouds? Can you just ask them to switch you from IFR to special VFR (assuming controlled airspace, which is unlikely if there's no approach anyway)?

SVFR is only available in a surface area. If there's a surface area there's going to be an IAP.
 
I'd guess most of the times a contact approach is requested is before an instrument approach is begun and to save time by bypassing the instrument approach.

Exactly. I've clear only one aircraft for a contact and the only reason why he requested it was to save fuel from doing another GCA.
 
So, why would you need to be equipped to fly the published IAP in order to accept a contact approach?
Because the FAA doesn't want people using contact approaches as a means of legalized scud-running when they could not otherwise get into that airport. That's why they put the requirement for a published approach in the regulation in the first place. I suspect that if this ever becomes a legal issue, and the court doesn't buy their position, they'll do like they did with the "possession/personal possession" question on pilot papers and revise the reg.
 
The reason for my question is because I fly to some airports that have no approach at all. But using the OBS function on the G530 I can line up with the runway with the same precision as a LOC approach. And adjusting the course on the G560 HSI to the runway alignment it gives me lateral and vertical guidance just like an ILS. I found this feature very useful specially at night were these airports have limited runway lighting. From what I read here it appears that there is no specific MDA for this situation. Does that means I can cancel IFR at 200ft AGL?
What you propose is not legal.
Sec. 91.175

Takeoff and landing under IFR.

(a) Instrument approaches to civil airports. Unless otherwise authorized by the FAA, when it is necessary to use an instrument approach to a civil airport, each person operating an aircraft must use a standard instrument approach procedure prescribed in part 97 of this chapter for that airport. This paragraph does not apply to United States military aircraft.
Your only legal option is to obtain a clearance down to the minimum IFR altitude and then either see the airport visually and get a visual approach or break into 91.155-legal VFR conditions and cancel IFR.

How would you get departure clearance where there is no ATC VHF or cell phone access.
Use a landline and get a long void time. Same for landing there -- if you can't cancel in the air, you'd have to get to a landline phone and call in your cancellation.
 
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Why do you need to be 500 feet below the clouds to accept a visual approach clearance while still IFR, when special VFR minimums are clear of clouds? Can you just ask them to switch you from IFR to special VFR (assuming controlled airspace, which is unlikely if there's no approach anyway)?
You don't need to be 500 below to accept a visual approach clearance, but you do need to be 500 below to cancel IFR while still in controlled airspace. The 1-mile/clear-of-clouds VFR option exists only in Class G airspace, and ATC cannot clear you down that low. As for Special VFR, that is only available when there is controlled airspace down to the surface, and if there's no instrument approach and no means of communication with ATC, you won't have that.
 
I suspect you say this because a contact approach would probably be able to be requested only under less than vmc and the requesting aircraft will probably be descending on a published approach when the request is made. The guidance to controllers doesn't say any of this but simple logic dictates in VMC you will get a visual approach; otherwise, you will be on a published IAP.

That check?
No. See my explanation a couple of posts up from here. And I've requested and been cleared for contact approaches before starting a SIAP.
 
You need a ceiling of at least 500 ft above the MVA/MIA to VECTOR an aircraft for a visual approach. Cloud distance requirements are not necessary to clear you.
However, once cleared for the visual approach, you must remain clear of clouds. See AIM 5-4-23 for details. What you are relieved from is the 91.155 VFR cloud clearance requirements as long as you don't cancel IFR.
 
Note one further point. Absent an approach published at the destination, you must ALWAYS file an alternate. Of course there's on odd catch here to be careful of I've noticed.

If I were to fly in to my home strip of NC26 (no approach), I can file SVH has an alternate 6 miles away.

If I were to have flown into SVH, the nearest alternate is 20 miles away.

So really, unless it's a VFR day, I'm going to flight plan enough fuel to make sure I can make it to a realistic alternate.
 
However, once cleared for the visual approach, you must remain clear of clouds. See AIM 5-4-23 for details. What you are relieved from is the 91.155 VFR cloud clearance requirements as long as you don't cancel IFR.

Yeah, key word being visual and all. Just saying he doesn't need 500 below to be cleared for it.
 
No. See my explanation a couple of posts up from here. And I've requested and been cleared for contact approaches before starting a SIAP.

This is all theoretical because the odds of me requesting a contact approach are damn near zero, but I'm legitimately confused. A contact approach is an IFR operation. I'm required to be equipped to fly at least one IAP to an airport in order to request a contact approach. I'm not required to be so equipped to be cleared for a visual approach. Is that all correct?
 
The reason for my question is because I fly to some airports that have no approach at all. But using the OBS function on the G530 I can line up with the runway with the same precision as a LOC approach. And adjusting the course on the G560 HSI to the runway alignment it gives me lateral and vertical guidance just like an ILS. I found this feature very useful specially at night were these airports have limited runway lighting. From what I read here it appears that there is no specific MDA for this situation. Does that means I can cancel IFR at 200ft AGL? In most of these airport there is no ATC access via VHF on the ground so I would have to cancel before getting on the ground.

How would you get departure clearance where there is no ATC VHF or cell phone access.

José

Sounds like a poor man's roll your own Synthetic Vision. Be careful with that as some of the lat/long entries for some airports are the center of the airport, which may not coincide with the center of the runway.

Workaround: (this is also NOT legal) plant yourself at each end of the runway and make a custom waypoint. Do the triangulation to create waypoints for the extended runway centerline.

Just saying....
 
I'm required to be equipped to fly at least one IAP to an airport in order to request a contact approach.
Other than Levy's opinion, where does it say THAT?
So..........let's say we're equipped "/A", filed and cleared to an airport with only a GPS approach available. Pre-flight briefing forecast we'd have good VFR weather for our arrival but it turns out more like two miles visibility in light rain and mist. ATC clears us down to MVA where we're clear of cloud in 2 miles..............would you suggest we're not legal to request and accept a contact approach in this circumstance simply because we're not equipped to fly the GPS approach that we never intended to fly?
 
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