IFR filing question

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SteveinNC

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Steve C.
We routinely fly a mission that goes from NC to Key West. It's 700 NM total and , if we have guests with us, a fuel/pit stop is a must. Jacksonville FL is exactly halfway, so we normally stop there.

Coming back a few weeks ago, it was just my wife and me with full fuel. I had filed 2 flight plans. One for KEYW to KCRG and one from KCRG to KBUY. It was a crappy day to fly (ya know, summer in FL)...and as we approached KCRG we did NOT want to get all beat up by descending and landing etc. We were feeling great, making good time, and fuel calculations showed an appropriate reserve if we were to just keep going.

So, I explained my situation and got cleared direct KBUY and had them cancel my other flight plan. It was all just fine and ATC was very accommodating.

Here's my question...we're headed back down next week (again, just my wife and me). I'd like to do be able to make the call as we approach the 1/2 point. Is it better to file the 2 flight plans as I did before OR just file one and divert 1/2 way if we need to and then file something on the ground?

Probably doesn't matter either way, but...if one way is easier for ATC than the other, I am always looking to do the "right" thing to make their job easier.
 
If you have fuel to make it to the ultimate destination with the required reserves, then I'd just file that and if someone needs a bathroom or other break, just divert. It's no big thing.

If however, there's doubt about having fuel to get there, I'd not file it. Don't need some FAA thug hanging you for technical violations of the reg.

I don't think it makes much of a difference to ATC.
 
That would work but I would probably do the converse. I'd file for the midpoint, and if it is clear you have the fuel to reach your destination (recalc with IFR reserve) then just amend your plan in the air. That's no biggie either.
 
File for the destination,and divert if things go bad. ATC may ask why the diversion,no problem ,just tell them why. They want to be sure everything is OK.
 
should've been more clear. We always have enough fuel for final destination and required reserves (when just 2 of us)...it's strictly a bladder call...although, of course, I'd assess fuel etc. at the 1/2 point.

Seems like the early consensus is file for final destination.
 
frfly172 said:
File for the destination,and divert if things go bad. ATC may ask why the diversion,no problem ,just tell them why. They want to be sure everything is OK.
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Flying home from KRAS and Amelia's Landing, we had filed KRAS direct KDTO, but got an airway then direct after a bit.

Ron said he would be hungry before we got to Denton, so I checked in with our Houston Center controller and asked to amend our destination to be KSEP.

When the controller asked the obligatory "Why?", I responded we were hungry for BBQ and wanted to proceed to the Hard8.

Controller responded, "Oh yeah! I've heard of that place! Is it any good?"

Me: "Yup! Some of the best you can fly to!"

Controller: <chuckles> "Gotcha. 55WB is cleared to Stephenville and some brisket or ribs. Have a great day."
 
We do NC to EYW once or twice a year. We can often make it non-stop with reserves if the winds are reasonably friendly.

However, going down we've gotten in the habit of landing at Fort Myers to tank up on cheap gas. It's a short leg to Key West which is nice if you don't mind being low over the beautiful warm water.

Then we top off with the high $$$ fuel at Key West and hope for friendly winds.
 
Bill Watson said:
We do NC to EYW once or twice a year. We can often make it non-stop with reserves if the winds are reasonably friendly.

However, going down we've gotten in the habit of landing at Fort Myers to tank up on cheap gas. It's a short leg to Key West which is nice if you don't mind being low over the beautiful warm water.

Then we top off with the high $$$ fuel at Key West and hope for friendly winds.
Click to expand...

Assume you mean page field? Wow...they do have low gas prices!
 
SteveinNC said:
We routinely fly a mission that goes from NC to Key West. It's 700 NM total and , if we have guests with us, a fuel/pit stop is a must. Jacksonville FL is exactly halfway, so we normally stop there.

Coming back a few weeks ago, it was just my wife and me with full fuel. I had filed 2 flight plans. One for KEYW to KCRG and one from KCRG to KBUY. It was a crappy day to fly (ya know, summer in FL)...and as we approached KCRG we did NOT want to get all beat up by descending and landing etc. We were feeling great, making good time, and fuel calculations showed an appropriate reserve if we were to just keep going.

So, I explained my situation and got cleared direct KBUY and had them cancel my other flight plan. It was all just fine and ATC was very accommodating.

Here's my question...we're headed back down next week (again, just my wife and me). I'd like to do be able to make the call as we approach the 1/2 point. Is it better to file the 2 flight plans as I did before OR just file one and divert 1/2 way if we need to and then file something on the ground?

Probably doesn't matter either way, but...if one way is easier for ATC than the other, I am always looking to do the "right" thing to make their job easier.
Click to expand...


Well you can do this a few different ways, easiest is your second choice.

just file one and divert 1/2 way if we need to and then file something on the ground?
Click to expand...

That's how I'd do it.
 
I'd be inclined to file for the whole distance, and then divert when necessary. My reasoning is that you may need to pee before your midpoint or after. So basically you just divert when you need to. Or not.
 
SteveinNC said:
Coming back a few weeks ago, it was just my wife and me with full fuel. I had filed 2 flight plans. One for KEYW to KCRG and one from KCRG to KBUY. It was a crappy day to fly (ya know, summer in FL)...and as we approached KCRG we did NOT want to get all beat up by descending and landing etc. We were feeling great, making good time, and fuel calculations showed an appropriate reserve if we were to just keep going.

So, I explained my situation and got cleared direct KBUY and had them cancel my other flight plan. It was all just fine and ATC was very accommodating.
Click to expand...
I was in exactly the same situation the first time I flew from Michigan to Vermont this spring. I had filed KVLL to KSDC for my pit stop, and planned to file the final leg to 6B0 during the stop. About halfway there I realized I was not going to need the pit stop, and that by shooting the approach I'd need, landing, and refueling and then climbing out again, I was actually wasting more gas than I would by going straight through (plus, avgas in NY is ridiculously high-priced). I didn't explain the situation to ATC, just asked if I could modify my destination. They almost immediately cleared me direct (which caused problems down the line because the direct route took me through some MOAs which later became temporarily hot, prompting a complicated and lengthy reroute).

Now I just file to my final destination. If I needed a pit stop I'd divert, but so far, I haven't needed to do that. (On a 4 hour leg, there's a fairly safe technique to ensure that. ;))
 
File what you want and is legal, then change in flight as the situation dictates. Just remember that post-9/11, ATC is often required to ask why you're changing destinations in flight, and if they do, "I gotta go potty" is a perfectly acceptable answer. ;)
 
Ron Levy said:
File what you want and is legal, then change in flight as the situation dictates. Just remember that post-9/11, ATC is often required to ask why you're changing destinations in flight, and if they do, "I gotta go potty" is a perfectly acceptable answer. ;)
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So as long as you don't respond "death to the infedals" or "alaha is great" you're probably fine lol
 
James331 said:
So as long as you don't respond "death to the infedals" or "alaha is great" you're probably fine lol
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Concur. That said, I know a couple of folks who say they'd respond to this as an undesired government intrusion on their personal privacy, and try to come up with something other than the truth in order to frustrate the nefarious schemes of the men in the black helicopters. I don't recommend that, as it's too likely to sound phony and thus set off the alarms. Yeah, you'd probably not have any long-term problems, but in the short term, it's hard to get to the bathroom quickly when you're met on landing by a bunch of people with people with badges, guns, and a lot of questions.
 
If you are going to stop in Jacksonville might as well stop in St Augustine instead. KSGJ is only 10 minutes south of KCRG and typically 80 center per gallon cheaper. They also have a nice restaurant on the field while KCRG has nothing. The self serve at KSGJ is directly adjacent to the tower. I'm based out of KCRG and routinely stop by KSGJ for fuel.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Ron Levy said:
Concur. That said, I know a couple of folks who say they'd respond to this as an undesired government intrusion on their personal privacy, and try to come up with something other than the truth in order to frustrate the nefarious schemes of the men in the black helicopters. I don't recommend that, as it's too likely to sound phony and thus set off the alarms. Yeah, you'd probably not have any long-term problems, but in the short term, it's hard to get to the bathroom quickly when you're met on landing by a bunch of people with people with badges, guns, and a lot of questions.
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You can always be vague, yet truthful: "Pilot discretion" / "Passenger request"
 
I've filed for a place I KNEW I could make (Altoona) and changed my destination to HGR (which is pretty close to P-40/Camp David). My explanation "I didn't think the weather was going to lift at HGR when I left" was accepted.
 
pericynthion said:
You can always be vague, yet truthful: "Pilot discretion" / "Passenger request"
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If you are "vague, yet truthful" like that, you invite further questioning -- especially for "passenger request" -- like whether that request is being made with a gun to your head. I just don't see why folks can't be simple, honest, and straightforward with ATC on things like this -- saves time and makes life easier for everyone.
 
From an ATC standpoint, file where you can get to and still be legal with the regs. I have to ask the reason for the divert. No big deal if it's for fuel. The heavy iron does this ALL THE TIME.

Be professional and honest. If fuel is the reason, fine. It might save a delay if your divert field happens to be busy. Rather that, than have me file paperwork with the NTSB after you pile drive some farmland on my frequency from exhaustion.
 
pericynthion said:
You can always be vague, yet truthful: "Pilot discretion" / "Passenger request"
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Unless it's a true safety-related reason as Mark pointed out, I always "just wanna stretch my legs." It's still truthfully something I want to do regardless...
 
Best reason I ever got....I may soil myself. My supervisor thought I was making it up until I made him play the tapes.
 
MarkZ said:
Best reason I ever got....I may soil myself. My supervisor thought I was making it up until I made him play the tapes.
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So, do you guys keep a running list of "good pilot diversion reasons?"

I got into slight trouble playing with my old Garmin 195. I found it had a bunch of different symbols that you can select for user waypoints. One is a bathroom icon. I suggested I could drop one of those on every airport we made an unscheduled stop at and I got one of those "don't you dare looks" from her.
I also try not to make any comments about the centerline being out of service while she's flying anymore as well.

The other day she was in the right seat and NY Approach terminated radar services and gave me a frequency for further advisories. Before I could stop her, she punched VFR on the transponder. I confessed to the next controller that my wife erased my squawk code.
 
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HighFlyingA380 said:
Unless it's a true safety-related reason as Mark pointed out, I always "just wanna stretch my legs." It's still truthfully something I want to do regardless...
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That's what I say, or "just want to explore around"

ATC really doesn't give a rats azz, they just have to ask.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you are "vague, yet truthful" like that, you invite further questioning -- especially for "passenger request" -- like whether that request is being made with a gun to your head. I just don't see why folks can't be simple, honest, and straightforward with ATC on things like this -- saves time and makes life easier for everyone.
Click to expand...

I've given "passenger request" about half a dozen times with no further questions.
 
The one that I used that was probably different was I told them I had to land now because my approach plates were in the baggage compartment and I couldn't reach them (and it was VMC here but worse ahead).

The controller said find, and that he'd just keep my plan open and to call him back when airborne again.
 
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