IFR currency in IMC

Jim_R

Jim_R

Pattern Altitude
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Jim
I suffer a problem that's probably common to many recreational pilots with an IR: How to stay both legal and proficient.

Let's focus on staying legal at the moment. I am approaching the end of my 6-mo window and need to check the boxes on 6 approaches and a hold to reset the clock. I don't have any close pilot buddies who I can call up and ask for safety pilot help. I do have a CFII with an Elite sim rig who can help me out, but that's not the same as being in my plane. I'd really like to get some practice in actual instrument conditions.

On a day like today, with some ~800 AGL ceilings nearby, I'm itching to hop in the plane and go fly some approaches. (There are 1200-2500' ceilings a short distance away, and the weather is not changing rapidly, so I have a Plan B if the ceiling suddenly starts to close in (which is not predicted).)

Again, separate from any consideration of whether I have the piloting skills to handle the approaches, should I have any reservations from the perspective of "abusing the system"? Flying practice approaches under VFR with a safety pilot does not impose big burdens on ATC to maintain separation, etc., but in IMC, perhaps my practicing will cause ATC to delay an arrival or departure to maintain legally-required separation from me.

So: Am I being rude to "get in the system" just to get some IMC practice, or is that a perfectly legitimate thing to do and I shouldn't worry about it?

(For what it's worth, the airports I'd consider practicing at are really not very busy and it's likely that my work would inconvenience very few, possibly zero, other flights.)

Assuming that it's not a jerk thing to do, say I wanted to fly to three airports and shoot two approaches to each. What's the preferred way I should file that so ATC knows what I'm trying to do? Should I file as three separate flight plans, and include a comment on each that I'd like to have two approaches for practice? Is there a better way to communicate those intentions?
 
I fly approaches in IMC just for fun all the time. I just work with ATC not be a burden, it might mean I take some holds/vectors, go missed vs. land, follow special requests, whatever. Go along to get along and its never a problem.

I'm not a fan of sims in lieu of flying short of the real motion ones.

Let us know how it goes.
 
Assuming you feel proficient to fly in the clouds, go fly in the clouds.

You're not abusing the system, assuming you're not in busy airspace.

What I've done (Leesburg - KJYO in the Dulles Class B TRACON):

File IFR from KJYO-KMRB. I put "Request multiple approaches at KMRB" in the comments.
File IFR from KMRB-KOKV. Same comment "multiple approaches at KOKV"
File IFR from KOKV-KJYO.

Call up approach, get cleared to KMRB - remind them on the way out that I'd like to shoot approach X, then miss for another approach. When I'm done at KMRB I ask for the IFR to KOKV, and the process repeats.

Some places you could file something like KJYO-KMRB-KOKV-KJYO and it would be fine. Ask your CFII how he'd do it in your local area.
 
Many thanks. I do plan to talk to my CFII, too, but his schedule is such that he's hard to get on short notice. I usually have to schedule with him about a week out.

Re: pros/cons of sims, that's a topic for another subject, but suffice to say I find them valuable. Neither the plane nor the sim is perfect by itself for all the things I want to practice.

The sim is great for providing more realistic instrument failure scenarios (gradual gyro spin down and resulting gradual drift, rather then *plop* there's a piece of paper taped over the instrument(s)). It's eye-opening to recognize how you can be fooled by a slowly-drifting instrument, and also eye-opening to how it can continue to spook you even after you know it's bad because you keep looking at it out of habit in your scan.

Sim is also good for "practicing" at distant airports that I visit frequently, but don't have the opportunity to fly practice approaches to. Good for instantly setting up at a specific place in the sky to begin an approach. Good for hitting the pause button to discuss an instructional point for a couple of minutes, and then resuming where we left off. Good for instantly resetting to same start point then repeating an approach or other training scenario under different conditions (day vs. night, IMC vs. VMC, full panel available vs. partial panel, various combinations thereof, etc.).

Sims are just another tool in the toolbox. As a pilot who's always looking for another way to improve skills and proficiency, they're not something I use in lieu of flying, they're something I use in addition to flying.
 
Don't know where you are located, but the folks at the Seattle TRACON and ZSE are accustomed to this. To some extent, their pay depends on traffic count. The system is there for your use. Go fly!!!!

Bob Gardner
 
Flying practice approaches in actual is how I stay legal and proficient. I'm still mourning the fact that I missed the yesterday's warm front passage. It was perfect except that our grass field got a bit too wet before I could get out.

As others have suggested, don't worry about burdening the system. Some locations want the traffic for pay reasons. But it's there to be used.

I generally file a plan for each airport pair. That gives me the option of stopping for a cup of coffee whenever the mood strikes.

Rather than doing multiple approaches to misses at one airport, I try to miss and immediately go to another airport. This mixes things up a bit and avoids just flying the well grooved approach,miss,approach loop. Just need one for the hold.

Better than that, if time isn't an issue, I like to fly most approaches to a full stop. Then do a departure into the soup. I often find departures in IMC as challenging as approaches especially since the departure clearance varies a good bit.

Using the system for 'free' is truly a privilege!
 
I'm with Bob -- go fly. Your taxes are paying those folks' salary, so get your money's worth.
 
Talk to your CFII about which airports to use for a practice round-robin. There are some towrered places (some with tracons) in need of the traffic counts, with all the VFR flyers stuck in the hangar, they have plenty of time to play with you. Look at the chart and put together what you would like to do, flying an approach perpendicular to the current wind is good practice for the time you will need to use it in anger.

On days with 'nonprecision ceilings', I would try to stay away from untowered fields without radar coverage. The other day, I came out of the clouds during a GPS approach to circle and.came nose-nose with an ANG blackhawk doing touch+goes with a right traffic pattern.

And no, short of doing practice approaches at JFK during low IFR like some bozo CFII from upstate likes to do, it is not abusing the system. Communicate, tell the that you gladly take a hold if they have inbound traffic, enjoy.
 
Many thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated!
 
I'd kill for flyable IMC to do the same around here. I watch weather reports like a hawk and would even bail on work if there were a non-icing opportunity to go do it. It's just too damn dry here.
 
If I'm not in a hurry heading from CJR to NC26 I'll request approaches at CHO, LYH, W91, MTV on the way. Often, I'll do each one twice. Once hand flying and once letting the AP couple.
 
weilke said:
Talk to your CFII about which airports to use for a practice round-robin. There are some towrered places (some with tracons) in need of the traffic counts, with all the VFR flyers stuck in the hangar, they have plenty of time to play with you. Look at the chart and put together what you would like to do, flying an approach perpendicular to the current wind is good practice for the time you will need to use it in anger.

On days with 'nonprecision ceilings', I would try to stay away from untowered fields without radar coverage. The other day, I came out of the clouds during a GPS approach to circle and.came nose-nose with an ANG blackhawk doing touch+goes with a right traffic pattern.

And no, short of doing practice approaches at JFK during low IFR like some bozo CFII from upstate likes to do, it is not abusing the system. Communicate, tell the that you gladly take a hold if they have inbound traffic, enjoy.
Click to expand...

Did he not hear you on the CTAF?
 
He would be talking to approach while still IMC.

It always bugged me that at uncontrolled airports with Class-E down to 700AGL, there is nothing (regulatory) to prevent you popping out on an ILS and colliding with NORDO Class-G traffic flying VFR 'clear of clouds'
 
Definitely fly.

Often, the controllers appreciate it if you're in a less busy area since it gives them something ti do. On my 135 checks in Peoria (a Class C), the folks in approach/tower actually thanked us for the workout, said they enjoyed it.
 
tiger said:
He would be talking to approach while still IMC.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Could ask for a frequency change any time after being cleared for the approach, or use a second radio.
It always bugged me that at uncontrolled airports with Class-E down to 700AGL, there is nothing (regulatory) to prevent you popping out on an ILS and colliding with NORDO Class-G traffic flying VFR 'clear of clouds'
Click to expand...
Me too, until I learned that's how it is, and to understand that you, the IFR traffic, are the invader into the legal vfr world that you are punching into. If you expect and train for it, you can maneuver at 700AGL to avoid traffic.
 
nosehair said:
Not necessarily. Could ask for a frequency change any time after being cleared for the approach, or use a second radio.
Me too, until I learned that's how it is, and to understand that you, the IFR traffic, are the invader into the legal vfr world that you are punching into. If you expect and train for it, you can maneuver at 700AGL to avoid traffic.
Click to expand...
True about the 'not necessarily', and with two radios he could be listening on CTAF even if not transmitting. Although of course, other traffic could be legally NORDO.

Not necessarily true on the second point though, as far as I understand it. There is nothing in the regs to stop you going 'bang' the very moment you pop out - except big sky and the hope that Class-G VFR traffic is smart enough not to skim those clouds on the LOC/GS course...

Don't get me wrong - I have accept it, but I don't have to like it. :)
 
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tiger said:
He would be talking to approach while still IMC.

It always bugged me that at uncontrolled airports with Class-E down to 700AGL, there is nothing (regulatory) to prevent you popping out on an ILS and colliding with NORDO Class-G traffic flying VFR 'clear of clouds'
Click to expand...

With most nonprecision approaches, you can be at MDA a couple of miles from the airport and you should be able to see the traffic in the pattern. If on a LNAV approach, you decide to fly the advisory glideslope, you may indeed pop out of the clouds very close to the pattern.

In this case, approach had released me to CTAF but I returned to cancel after I broke out. The guys in the blackhawk knew I was coming, they have two pilots, I assume the instructor was listening to approach on one ear.
 
weilke said:
With most nonprecision approaches, you can be at MDA a couple of miles from the airport and you should be able to see the traffic in the pattern.
Click to expand...

Kinda depends on if you are a "Dive and Drive" type, or a "constant descent" type. :)
 
bobmrg said:
Don't know where you are located, but the folks at the Seattle TRACON and ZSE are accustomed to this. To some extent, their pay depends on traffic count. The system is there for your use. Go fly!!!!

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Good folks at SEA. I've abused them many times. They're always glad to help, although I think I did hear some relief in the controllers voice one time when I said the approach would terminate in a landing. :D

Easy to file - KOLM to KOLM, multiple approaches. :D Now if we'd just get some weather to fly in that didn't sound like it was full of ice...
 
tiger said:
True about the 'not necessarily', and with two radios he could be listening on CTAF even if not transmitting. Although of course, other traffic could be legally NORDO.

Not necessarily true on the second point though, as far as I understand it. There is nothing in the regs to stop you going 'bang' the very moment you pop out - except big sky and the hope that Class-G VFR traffic is smart enough not to skim those clouds on the LOC/GS course...

Don't get me wrong - I have accept it, but I don't have to like it. :)
Click to expand...

Which is why I want a ceiling at least 500ft above TPA if I'm VFR in the pattern. Unfortunately, I can't control what others do, but I can let them know I'm coming if I'm IFR.
 
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