IFR Clearance VS filed route

[Greg Bockelman]

Take a look at the following thread and tell me where I am wrong. Or in otherwords, what is the proper procedure?




Georgia Flyboy
Senior Member

For those IFR guys out there answer me this......I flew from Atlanta to Greenville, SC the other day and I get a void time clearance on the ground. I am given a clearance that is not the same route that I filed. I takeoff and contact departure and receive a 090 vector and then "As filed". Would that be truly as filed when I talked to the briefer or the clearance given to me on the ground?

Feedboy
Senior Member

Filed is exactly what you filed. Otherwise you would have gotten, "turn heading XXX and precede on course." Or something close to that.

minitour
Senior Member

Yeppers...As filed is as filed.

If they wanted you to go as they cleared you it would have been

"Bugsmasher 444 fly heading 090 then as previously cleared"

or something to that effect.

-mini

Xelectro
Instrument Pilot

Flew IFR today from KLEX (Bluegrass Field) to KMQJ in Indiana. In my initial clerance given to me by clerance delivery I was cleared As Filed. And I ussually like to file using Victor airways and VORs. After airborne and talking to departure. Was nicely asked by the controller if I simply prefer to go direct KMQJ and avoind all the airways. After accepting that new clerance the controller said "Expect direct KMQJ in 10 miles" So it is quite often that your as filed clerance will be ammended to meet new traffic sequences. I personally never file Direct because it's just too easy. But some controllers prefer that over the airways.

jerryp
More Right Rudder!

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've been cleared as filed. Once I got a full route clearance that was what I filed, but she actually read the whole thing.

smoothflyin88
CP-ASMEL IA IGI

If it were me, I would just double check with the controller. Sometimes when it's busy the termonology can lax a bit. If they had wanted you to fly the new routing they should have used

"resume own navigation"

or

"Proceed as previously cleared"

or something along those lines.


minitour
Senior Member

I typically file what I think the controllers will give me "as filed".

If it's at a busier airport, I usually file the appropriate SID to a transition fix and then direct. If I'm going to a busier airport, I'll file the SID to a transition fix direct to another transition fix for the STAR.

Probably 85% of the time I'm cleared as filed.

It helps (flying direct) if you're between ~8 and 15k...there's no on there. The big guys are blasting off to the FLs and the slow guys are hangin out around 4k.

...that's been my experience anyway.

-mini

jfitzpat
Senior Member

I often get the route I file but, like minitour, I typically file what I expect them to give me.

As for the situation at hand I'm with Smoothflying. 'As Filed' means exactly that, but I probably would have made my response something like "Please confirm As Filed, not As Cleared".

-jjf


Greg Bockelman
Senior Member

I have to take a different view on this. First a disclaimer. I cannot find a reference for what I am about to say, but niether can I find a reference to back up what I have read here.

I agree whole heartedly that if there is any doubt, please ask for clarification.

I believe that if ATC gives you a routing that is different than what you filed, that clearance becomes an AMENDMENT to your flight plan and becomes your filed flight plan. And if you are on radar vectors and ATC clears you to intercept your filed route, you fly the amended route ATC cleared you for, not what you originally filed. That is what I believe ATC expects you to do.

But like I said, if in doubt, ask.


jfitzpat
Senior Member

I wouldn't normaly make a big deal out of this, but this is dangerously wrong. Look at lost comm procedures. What you have a been "assigned" and even what you have been told to "expect" takes precedence over what you "filed", but what you *filed* still remains a part of the equation.

Every time you receive new instructions from ATC your *clearance* is being amended, but not your *filed* route.

-jjf

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Let me put it a different way.

If you file from point A to point B via CDE FGH IJK and LMN and clearance routes you via CDE OPQ RST ans UVW what route do you fly if ATC says "radar vectors to CDE then as filed? Does the ATC reroute become your "as filed"?

That is what the thread above is about.

 

[wsuffa]

Greg,

I think it comes down to wording.

What you filed is (or should be) still on record. I have, on a couple of occasions, been asked by ATC "What was your last clearance and what did you file" when checking on (ATC got no info).

The phrase that ATC uses with a revised clearance is "I have an amendment to your clearance" or "I have an amendment to your routing". It's not "amendment to your flied flight plan". After all, what you filed is what you filed.

Having said all that, virtually every time that I get a clearance, especially on a longer trip, the last part of the clearance is "as filed". And virtually every time that I get a different clearance than filed, and have it revised in the air, it's "fly (heading until) (direct to), then on-course (or upon xxx resume own navigation)." The only time "then as filed" seems to come into play is where the clearance and as-filed coincide.

I think it's a very narrow issue in practice. However, I do agree with the other posters that it becomes "as filed".

My reference would be AIM Section 4-4-9-g

"g. The guiding principle is that the last ATC clearance has precedence over the previous ATC clearance. When the route or altitude in a previously issued clearance is amended, the controller will restate applicable altitude restrictions. If altitude to maintain is changed or restated, whether prior to departure or while airborne, and previously issued altitude restrictions are omitted, those altitude restrictions are canceled, including departure procedures and STAR altitude restrictions. "

This discusses clearances only, not filing. I believe that the pilot is the only one that can modify the actual flight plan, not ATC.

 

[markb5900]

I just called the local tower and asked them.
They said what they see is your clearance you got. If as filed then they get the original flight plan etc..
If it is changed in the air, then they get a new strip with your new "flight plan" on it.
So you would fly the clearance you got

Mark B.

 

[wsuffa]

Greg, AIM 5-2-4 discusses "as filed" procedures. It doesn't answer the question directly, but implies that "as filed" refers to the flight plan that the pilot/operator filed.

5-2-4. Abbreviated IFR Departure Clearance (Cleared. . .as Filed) Procedures

a. ATC facilities will issue an abbreviated IFR departure clearance based on the ROUTE of flight filed in the IFR flight plan, provided the filed route can be approved with little or no revision. These abbreviated clearance procedures are based on the following conditions:

1. The aircraft is on the ground or it has departed visual flight rules (VFR) and the pilot is requesting IFR clearance while airborne.

2. That a pilot will not accept an abbreviated clearance if the route or destination of a flight plan filed with ATC has been changed by the pilot or the company or the operations officer before departure.

3. That it is the responsibility of the company or operations office to inform the pilot when they make a change to the filed flight plan.

4. That it is the responsibility of the pilot to inform ATC in the initial call-up (for clearance) when the filed flight plan has been either:

(a) Amended, or

(b) Canceled and replaced with a new filed flight plan.

NOTE-
The facility issuing a clearance may not have received the revised route or the revised flight plan by the time a pilot requests clearance.

b. Controllers will issue a detailed clearance when they know that the original filed flight plan has been changed or when the pilot requests a full route clearance.

c. The clearance as issued will include the destination airport filed in the flight plan.

d. ATC procedures now require the controller to state the DP name, the current number and the DP transition name after the phrase "Cleared to (destination) airport" and prior to the phrase, "then as filed," for ALL departure clearances when the DP or DP transition is to be flown. The procedures apply whether or not the DP is filed in the flight plan.

e. STARs, when filed in a flight plan, are considered a part of the filed route of flight and will not normally be stated in an initial departure clearance. If the ARTCC's jurisdictional airspace includes both the departure airport and the fix where a STAR or STAR transition begins, the STAR name, the current number and the STAR transition name MAY be stated in the initial clearance.

f. "Cleared to (destination) airport as filed" does NOT include the en route altitude filed in a flight plan. An en route altitude will be stated in the clearance or the pilot will be advised to expect an assigned or filed altitude within a given time frame or at a certain point after departure. This may be done verbally in the departure instructions or stated in the DP.

g. In both radar and nonradar environments, the controller will state "Cleared to (destination) airport as filed" or:

1. If a DP or DP transition is to be flown, specify the DP name, the current DP number, the DP transition name, the assigned altitude/flight level, and any additional instructions (departure control frequency, beacon code assignment, etc.) necessary to clear a departing aircraft via the DP or DP transition and the route filed.

EXAMPLE-
National Seven Twenty cleared to Miami Airport Intercontinental one departure, Lake Charles transition then as filed, maintain Flight Level two seven zero.

2. When there is no DP or when the pilot cannot accept a DP, the controller will specify the assigned altitude or flight level, and any additional instructions necessary to clear a departing aircraft via an appropriate departure routing and the route filed.

NOTE-
A detailed departure route description or a radar vector may be used to achieve the desired departure routing.

3. If it is necessary to make a minor revision to the filed route, the controller will specify the assigned DP or DP transition (or departure routing), the revision to the filed route, the assigned altitude or flight level and any additional instructions necessary to clear a departing aircraft.

EXAMPLE-
Jet Star One Four Two Four cleared to Atlanta Airport, South Boston two departure then as filed except change route to read South Boston Victor 20 Greensboro, maintain one seven thousand.

4. Additionally, in a nonradar environment, the controller will specify one or more fixes, as necessary, to identify the initial route of flight.

EXAMPLE-
Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot cleared to Charlotte Airport as filed via Brooke, maintain seven thousand.

h. To ensure success of the program, pilots should:

1. Avoid making changes to a filed flight plan just prior to departure.

2. State the following information in the initial call-up to the facility when no change has been made to the filed flight plan: Aircraft call sign, location, type operation (IFR) and the name of the airport (or fix) to which you expect clearance.

EXAMPLE-
"Washington clearance delivery (or ground control if appropriate) American Seventy Six at gate one, IFR Los Angeles."

3. If the flight plan has been changed, state the change and request a full route clearance.

EXAMPLE-
"Washington clearance delivery, American Seventy Six at gate one. IFR San Francisco. My flight plan route has been amended (or destination changed). Request full route clearance."

4. Request verification or clarification from ATC if ANY portion of the clearance is not clearly understood.

5. When requesting clearance for the IFR portion of a VFR/IFR flight, request such clearance prior to the fix where IFR operation is proposed to commence in sufficient time to avoid delay. Use the following phraseology:

EXAMPLE-
"Los Angeles center, Apache Six One Papa, VFR estimating Paso Robles VOR at three two, one thousand five hundred, request IFR to Bakersfield.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Bill, I think AIM 4-4-4 and 4-4-6 cover it better.

 

[poadeleted20]

I would not accept that "cleared as filed" without positive confirmation that I am to return to my originally filed route rather than the different route in the original clearance I was given. At the same time, I would also not take it to mean "cleared via the route in your original IFR clearance" without positive confirmation. I can't find chapter and verse on this, but IMO, it's in the category of, "If it don't smell right, don't eat it."

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I would not accept that "cleared as filed" without positive confirmation that I am to return to my originally filed route rather than the different route in the original clearance I was given. At the same time, I would also not take it to mean "cleared via the route in your original IFR clearance" without positive confirmation. I can't find chapter and verse on this, but IMO, it's in the category of, "If it don't smell right, don't eat it."

In otherwords, you don't know what they mean without asking. Kind of what I think too. But I think if ATC amends the route that becomes the filed route. But I can't prove it.

 

[Everskyward]

I am given a clearance that is not the same route that I filed. I takeoff and contact departure and receive a 090 vector and then "As filed". Would that be truly as filed when I talked to the briefer or the clearance given to me on the ground?

I think the controller just misspoke and the intent was to follow the last clearance. I can't recall having heard "as filed" used in this context before. Usually they say something like, "090 to intercept something-or-other, own navigation." That said, I agree with the thought that if you're not sure, ask.

 

[wsuffa]

I agree with asking.

I routinely ask - just yesterday I was cleared by Approach "direct Stinson" after confirming that I wanted the visual. Trouble is that the Stinson VOR is about 7 miles off-field. And the usual clearance is to the VOR to keep us FLIBs out of the Class C/departure corridor. So I ask - and he did indeed mean airport.

 

[mdreger]

When an amendment is put in by a controller, the original route is deleted. For example, if you filed:

MDW CGT GIJ DTW it would get changed to MDW GIJ DTW because CGT is an inbound fix, and no one is allowed to go outbound from Chicagoland over CGT.

It would be read as "...cleared to Detroit Metro airport via MDW4 departure, radar vectors GIJ then as filed", or "...cleared to Detroit Metro airport via MDW4 departure, radar vectors GIJ direct DTW" In either case, there would be no indication that you ever filed CGT. The controller should not expect you to turn to CGT if you were cleared as filed after departure.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

When an amendment is put in by a controller, the original route is deleted. For example, if you filed:

MDW CGT GIJ DTW it would get changed to MDW GIJ DTW because CGT is an inbound fix, and no one is allowed to go outbound from Chicagoland over CGT.

It would be read as "...cleared to Detroit Metro airport via MDW4 departure, radar vectors GIJ then as filed", or "...cleared to Detroit Metro airport via MDW4 departure, radar vectors GIJ direct DTW" In either case, there would be no indication that you ever filed CGT. The controller should not expect you to turn to CGT if you were cleared as filed after departure.

Mike,

That is what I think too. But do you have a reference for that?

 

[mdreger]

Mike,

That is what I think too. But do you have a reference for that?

Just personal experience from amending similar flight plans.

Just to add to the confusion, there are times where you will get an "amended" clearance where your original route will still appear.

There are computer generated amendments in flight progress strips. These (that you may never see) appear between two + (plus) marks and are called PDR's, Preferred Departure Routes. These, I am told, ALWAYS tie into your route, and can contain more than one fix. I don't know what you would be expected to do if you were given "...as filed..." while on a route contained between the ++'s. There used to be a C90 controller on here with a s/n of ogogog, but he seems to have been deleted. He could have probably given you a better perspective from his side of the CRT.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I'm attending a Raincheck program at Fort Worth Center this coming Saturday, and will try to remember to ask the controller I'm sitting with about this exact scenario.

Interesting discussion. I think "as filed" means "what you filed", and "as cleared" means just that... "the latest clearance we gave you". If you change those terms to mean something else, if "as filed" later becomes "as cleared", then it doesn't make sense in the context of things like lost comm procedures, where "as cleared" takes precedence over "as filed".

I think the confusion arose from the controller using non-standard terminology. Best course: ask for clarification, as others have stated.

Best case scenario, the pilot who posed the original question would have asked, and could have told us the answer. Even then, I'd trust that answer only in that specific instance, from that specific controller. Another controller, stating the same thing, could mean "as filed" or "as cleared"; the only way to know for sure is to ask.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I'm attending a Raincheck program at Fort Worth Center this coming Saturday, and will try to remember to ask the controller I'm sitting with about this exact scenario.

Scott Voigt (Fort Worth Center Controller) answered this for us today during the Raincheck program.

1) They (Center, ATC) don't know what you filed. The only thing available to them is what clearance you received.

2) He's heard this exact thing happen at his facility... the right thing to do, as we thought, is "ask for clarification." He said the controller should have said "cleared direct XYZ, rest of route unchanged."

 

[poadeleted20]

I had some fun on something like this today. Filed IFR from SBY up to SWF using the DUATS auto-router. SBY says "cleared as filed" on this fairly direct route. About 15 minutes after takeoff, Dover Approach says "22RL, I have a new routing, advise when ready." This one goes up V16 to JFK then eastnortheast to Bridgeport before turning back west to SWF -- an extra 100 miles or more!

I ask if this is necessary, as it will add nearly an hour to my sub-two-hour flight. Dover comes back and says, "Cleared direct Atlantic City, I'll get the rest of the route." "No," I say, "ACY isn't on my filed or cleared route -- unable to accept direct ACY without an expected further route." "Stand by," says Dover. A couple of minutes later, Dover reads me a third route, and then says "cleared direct DIXIE intersection." "Unable direct DIXIE, I'm /A, not /G."

Well, we eventually settled on direct VCN V16 CYN RBV and then north via SBJ and SAX to SWF, but it was really not fun going through this goat-roping exercise -- in the clouds, no autopilot, unfolding and refolding the chart to see where each clearance is going, whew! Then Dover blames it all on Atlantic City Approach -- talk about buckpassing...

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I had some fun on something like this today. Filed IFR from SBY up to SWF using the DUATS auto-router. SBY says "cleared as filed" on this fairly direct route. About 15 minutes after takeoff, Dover Approach says "22RL, I have a new routing, advise when ready." This one goes up V16 to JFK then eastnortheast to Bridgeport before turning back west to SWF -- an extra 100 miles or more!

I ask if this is necessary, as it will add nearly an hour to my sub-two-hour flight. Dover comes back and says, "Cleared direct Atlantic City, I'll get the rest of the route." "No," I say, "ACY isn't on my filed or cleared route -- unable to accept direct ACY without an expected further route." "Stand by," says Dover. A couple of minutes later, Dover reads me a third route, and then says "cleared direct DIXIE intersection." "Unable direct DIXIE, I'm /A, not /G."

Well, we eventually settled on direct VCN V16 CYN RBV and then north via SBJ and SAX to SWF, but it was really not fun going through this goat-roping exercise -- in the clouds, no autopilot, unfolding and refolding the chart to see where each clearance is going, whew! Then Dover blames it all on Atlantic City Approach -- talk about buckpassing...

Ugg!! "Honey, we're buying an auto-pilot!"