Greg Bockelman
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Greg Bockelman
Take a look at the following thread and tell me where I am wrong. Or in otherwords, what is the proper procedure?
Georgia Flyboy
Senior Member
For those IFR guys out there answer me this......I flew from Atlanta to Greenville, SC the other day and I get a void time clearance on the ground. I am given a clearance that is not the same route that I filed. I takeoff and contact departure and receive a 090 vector and then "As filed". Would that be truly as filed when I talked to the briefer or the clearance given to me on the ground?
Feedboy
Senior Member
Filed is exactly what you filed. Otherwise you would have gotten, "turn heading XXX and precede on course." Or something close to that.
minitour
Senior Member
Yeppers...As filed is as filed.
If they wanted you to go as they cleared you it would have been
"Bugsmasher 444 fly heading 090 then as previously cleared"
or something to that effect.
-mini
Xelectro
Instrument Pilot
Flew IFR today from KLEX (Bluegrass Field) to KMQJ in Indiana. In my initial clerance given to me by clerance delivery I was cleared As Filed. And I ussually like to file using Victor airways and VORs. After airborne and talking to departure. Was nicely asked by the controller if I simply prefer to go direct KMQJ and avoind all the airways. After accepting that new clerance the controller said "Expect direct KMQJ in 10 miles" So it is quite often that your as filed clerance will be ammended to meet new traffic sequences. I personally never file Direct because it's just too easy. But some controllers prefer that over the airways.
jerryp
More Right Rudder!
I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've been cleared as filed. Once I got a full route clearance that was what I filed, but she actually read the whole thing.
smoothflyin88
CP-ASMEL IA IGI
If it were me, I would just double check with the controller. Sometimes when it's busy the termonology can lax a bit. If they had wanted you to fly the new routing they should have used
"resume own navigation"
or
"Proceed as previously cleared"
or something along those lines.
minitour
Senior Member
I typically file what I think the controllers will give me "as filed".
If it's at a busier airport, I usually file the appropriate SID to a transition fix and then direct. If I'm going to a busier airport, I'll file the SID to a transition fix direct to another transition fix for the STAR.
Probably 85% of the time I'm cleared as filed.
It helps (flying direct) if you're between ~8 and 15k...there's no on there. The big guys are blasting off to the FLs and the slow guys are hangin out around 4k.
...that's been my experience anyway.
-mini
jfitzpat
Senior Member
I often get the route I file but, like minitour, I typically file what I expect them to give me.
As for the situation at hand I'm with Smoothflying. 'As Filed' means exactly that, but I probably would have made my response something like "Please confirm As Filed, not As Cleared".
-jjf
Greg Bockelman
Senior Member
I have to take a different view on this. First a disclaimer. I cannot find a reference for what I am about to say, but niether can I find a reference to back up what I have read here.
I agree whole heartedly that if there is any doubt, please ask for clarification.
I believe that if ATC gives you a routing that is different than what you filed, that clearance becomes an AMENDMENT to your flight plan and becomes your filed flight plan. And if you are on radar vectors and ATC clears you to intercept your filed route, you fly the amended route ATC cleared you for, not what you originally filed. That is what I believe ATC expects you to do.
But like I said, if in doubt, ask.
jfitzpat
Senior Member
I wouldn't normaly make a big deal out of this, but this is dangerously wrong. Look at lost comm procedures. What you have a been "assigned" and even what you have been told to "expect" takes precedence over what you "filed", but what you *filed* still remains a part of the equation.
Every time you receive new instructions from ATC your *clearance* is being amended, but not your *filed* route.
-jjf
Georgia Flyboy
Senior Member
For those IFR guys out there answer me this......I flew from Atlanta to Greenville, SC the other day and I get a void time clearance on the ground. I am given a clearance that is not the same route that I filed. I takeoff and contact departure and receive a 090 vector and then "As filed". Would that be truly as filed when I talked to the briefer or the clearance given to me on the ground?
Feedboy
Senior Member
Filed is exactly what you filed. Otherwise you would have gotten, "turn heading XXX and precede on course." Or something close to that.
minitour
Senior Member
Yeppers...As filed is as filed.
If they wanted you to go as they cleared you it would have been
"Bugsmasher 444 fly heading 090 then as previously cleared"
or something to that effect.
-mini
Xelectro
Instrument Pilot
Flew IFR today from KLEX (Bluegrass Field) to KMQJ in Indiana. In my initial clerance given to me by clerance delivery I was cleared As Filed. And I ussually like to file using Victor airways and VORs. After airborne and talking to departure. Was nicely asked by the controller if I simply prefer to go direct KMQJ and avoind all the airways. After accepting that new clerance the controller said "Expect direct KMQJ in 10 miles" So it is quite often that your as filed clerance will be ammended to meet new traffic sequences. I personally never file Direct because it's just too easy. But some controllers prefer that over the airways.
jerryp
More Right Rudder!
I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've been cleared as filed. Once I got a full route clearance that was what I filed, but she actually read the whole thing.
smoothflyin88
CP-ASMEL IA IGI
If it were me, I would just double check with the controller. Sometimes when it's busy the termonology can lax a bit. If they had wanted you to fly the new routing they should have used
"resume own navigation"
or
"Proceed as previously cleared"
or something along those lines.
minitour
Senior Member
I typically file what I think the controllers will give me "as filed".
If it's at a busier airport, I usually file the appropriate SID to a transition fix and then direct. If I'm going to a busier airport, I'll file the SID to a transition fix direct to another transition fix for the STAR.
Probably 85% of the time I'm cleared as filed.
It helps (flying direct) if you're between ~8 and 15k...there's no on there. The big guys are blasting off to the FLs and the slow guys are hangin out around 4k.
...that's been my experience anyway.
-mini
jfitzpat
Senior Member
I often get the route I file but, like minitour, I typically file what I expect them to give me.
As for the situation at hand I'm with Smoothflying. 'As Filed' means exactly that, but I probably would have made my response something like "Please confirm As Filed, not As Cleared".
-jjf
Greg Bockelman
Senior Member
I have to take a different view on this. First a disclaimer. I cannot find a reference for what I am about to say, but niether can I find a reference to back up what I have read here.
I agree whole heartedly that if there is any doubt, please ask for clarification.
I believe that if ATC gives you a routing that is different than what you filed, that clearance becomes an AMENDMENT to your flight plan and becomes your filed flight plan. And if you are on radar vectors and ATC clears you to intercept your filed route, you fly the amended route ATC cleared you for, not what you originally filed. That is what I believe ATC expects you to do.
But like I said, if in doubt, ask.
jfitzpat
Senior Member
I wouldn't normaly make a big deal out of this, but this is dangerously wrong. Look at lost comm procedures. What you have a been "assigned" and even what you have been told to "expect" takes precedence over what you "filed", but what you *filed* still remains a part of the equation.
Every time you receive new instructions from ATC your *clearance* is being amended, but not your *filed* route.
-jjf
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