If you're flying in...

Discussion in 'Air Venture' started by flyingcheesehead, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,440
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    <rant>

    Go to Ripon, follow the tracks, 1800 feet, 90 knots, 1/2 mile in trail, and...

    SHUT. THE HELL. UP!!!

    It was really busy today, and it got to the point where the controllers were behind the eight ball, giving instructions to aircraft that were already past Fisk... Oh, and another PSA: The NOTAM specifically says DO NOT PROCEED BEYOND FISK without ATC instructions! Turn left, go around Rush Lake, back to Ripon, and start over.

    Anyway, controllers were super-busy, and people keep keying up and saying "But we're a flight of three!" or "Can I have runway 36 instead?"

    NO, you may not. Unless they specifically ask which runway you want, shut up, take what they give you, and do not speak on the radio. At all. They need every bit of frequency time they can get - Their mic was pretty much open. Stepping on ATC helps nobody! Because of that, they were having to repeat instructions and couldn't talk fast enough to give the arriving aircraft instructions in time.

    Result? A controller had to jump on and press the reset button. "All aircraft past Ripon, turn left heading 270 immediately, proceed back to Ripon and start over."

    </rant>

    Please, read and follow the NOTAM. There is no reason to ever key a mic going into or out of Airventure VFR unless ATC specifically asks you a question. These controllers are the best of the best, let them do their job.
     
    Steve Costello, GRG55, tsts4 and 3 others like this.
  2. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WI Flyer
    I like not talking to anyone.
     
    Alex G. Francisco and Grum.Man like this.
  3. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,965
    Location:
    SE Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    It amazes me every time. Those controllers are very skilled.
     
  4. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    14,774
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    ATC was on their game today!
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  5. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Drake the Outlaw
    As we were approaching Fisk, someone was arguing with the controllers About what to do because "A Bonanza cut him off". "Make a right turn out of the arrival and rejoin at Ripon". "But..."


    Dumbass. Shut up and fly the airplane.
     
  6. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WI Flyer
    Yeah, I always want to be on the inbound course a few miles SW of RIPON, not in a 45 AOB turning belly-up to the other traffic. I've seen a few cut the corner. It's like being on the playground as a kid, sort it out, no need to whine to the FISKE controller. Keep it safe too, no reason to add 'air rage' to the sky.
     
  7. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    14,774
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Pilot anti-authoritaranism!
    I saw 4 pilots ignore the flagmen despite shouting, waving, running!
    "But I want to park with my friends!"
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  8. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,394
    Location:
    Port Aransas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jay Honeck
    Everything Cheesehead said is correct -- but this one is a problem EAA could resolve.

    During the week of the show, you can go flying. To get back to your spot, you simply hold a sign up that says (for example) "Row 572". It works great. The flagmen let you pass to get there.

    When people are arriving, it should be possible to do the same. If I've got people who arrived yesterday, and there is a spot there that they have set up for me, I should be able to hold up a sign that says "Row 516" (for example) to get to my group.

    I say this because I've done it, and it worked fine -- except for the EAA volunteer who didn't want me to pass. The fact that ALL of my camping gear was set up on that spot just didn't seem to register with him. (Our gear lives in OSH year round.)

    I finally got through to him that, yes, I already had a campsite, but it was silly and difficult. He must've thought we were going to go park sideways at the end of the row, or something?

    And, yes, I know EAA has tried doing "corrals" for group reservations. Unfortunately, they put them on the North side of RWY 27, as far from the show as possible. No one in our group wants to waste an hour trying to get from there to the front gate (yes, we've timed it, when the busses were full).

    It's not a big deal -- we are flying in today, and if it doesn't work, so be it (we are in Janesville right now, caffeinating) -- but it's something EAA might consider changing.



    Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
     
  9. tmcquinn

    tmcquinn Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    T.McQuinn
    Yes, clearly if you are popular it should be a license to have someone hold a spot for you. EAA's lack of enlightenment towards the entitled gentry should be addressed.
     
  10. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Volunteered for parking yesterday and today, am seeing that most pilots pay attention to us. Few are very assertive with their aircraft and just don't pay attention. We're directing you in a specific direction for a reason. You may not be following the plane ahead of you for a reason.

    And turn off your damn taxi lights when you're on the ground. They're blinding to us.

    Saw a bunch of near misses on 27 yesterday. There's quite a few low wing pilots that don't seem to know their short field landing procedures and carry way too much speed. Saw a Mooney almost get landed on because they had too much speed. Saw another get 5 landings in on one go. Again, way too much speed.

    And castering nosewheels seem like a really dumb idea, especially on grass. He'll, you spend a million on a plane, at least they could give you a steerable nosewheels.

    Saw some impressive slips from cub and champ pilots having fun hitting the dots.
     
    Steve Costello and denverpilot like this.
  11. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Another thing, on grass... It's soft. Pull the yoke back. Give your nosewheel a break. So many pilots not doing that.
     
    Steve Costello and Bill Watson like this.
  12. tmcquinn

    tmcquinn Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    T.McQuinn
    The light thing never even occurred to me. Will strive to make it a priority to comply.
     
  13. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Cirus drivers trying to get something under the wheels before they sink in
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,682
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleDriver
    Question; do parkers actually look at the signs pilot's hold up, or can they easily see them?

    On 2 of my first 3 arrivals in my 1995 Maule, I was directed all around the airport and finally directed to vintage camping or parking(?). First time I didn't have a clue what was going on until I was directed past the entrance, upon which I stopped, shut down and peed... thought I would have arrived 15 mins ago. Second time I just went with and let them direct to a vintage spot and took my GA sign down.... of course some vintage guy saw the mistake and kicked me out. I mean it's just a tail wheel Maule, nothing exotic or vintage about it.

    BTW, castering nosewheels are just as agile as a plane with a steerable wheel. No idea why one would think otherwise except due to inexperience. Bonus Points: the fun game to play is to see how much taxiing you can do without touching the brakes, especially fun on grass.

    BTW2, Maule Drivers hit the spot without needing a slip!
     
  15. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Parkers can see the signs if you hold them up in your windshield. Sometimes we do end up playing plane pong, but we're all volunteers and some signs are hard to read in a windshield when a plane is coming right at you. And we occasionally **** up.
     
    Steve Costello likes this.
  16. tmcquinn

    tmcquinn Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    T.McQuinn
    I've always meant to thank you folks for all that hard work out in the sun, so thanks. I can't imagine how EAA would pull this off without you.
     
    Steve Costello and SCCutler like this.
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,440
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    This brings up another thing. People don't think about the procedures beforehand, and practice the things they'll need to do.

    One of those things is to maintain 90 knots as far into the approach as possible, so that the guy behind you doesn't run up your tail and have to go around (or worse, cause an accident). But people don't usually see what it takes to slow from 90 knots to landing speed in the descent from pattern altitude, so they screw it up and land fast.

    Or, they may just land fast all the time. Tons of that in GA.

    If you're going to make one big trip a year... DON'T make it into the busiest airport in the world. Would you go for a $100 hamburger at O'Hare or Hartsfield for your first flight in spring?

    Some things that should be practiced before needing to perform them in front of a huge crowd:
    1. The aforementioned slowing from 90 knots as close to touchdown as you can make it. (all approaches)
    2. Starting your descent on downwind, and touching down pretty much immediately upon rolling out on "final". (18L/R approach)
    3. Making short approaches (mainly 27)
    4. Maintaining exactly 90 knots and 1800 feet MSL, with the gear down. What power setting does your plane need for that?
    5. Exiting the runway into the grass at 20-30 knots.
    If everyone mastered these five things in addition to basic airmanship (and NOTAM reading comprehension), Oshkosh would be smoother and much safer. Don't take that to mean OSH is unsafe - It's amazingly safe, but it is unsafe to those who are not proficient with their airplanes in a non-cross country environment. If you're good at slow flight and pattern work, great! You'll be safe. But every year, a couple of people manage to stall at low altitude because they're not one with their planes. Don't be that guy.
     
    Steve Costello and Cykoguy like this.
  18. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    The True Southeast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    Exit the runway at 20-30 knots? Really?
     
  19. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,440
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    As fast as you can safely do it. Yes, really. Unless you want someone else rear-ending you or going around 10 feet above your head.

    And yes, into the grass. It amazes me when someone loiters on the runway as if to await taxi instructions, or putters down to the next paved taxiway. That usually results in multiple go-arounds.
     
    Steve Costello likes this.
  20. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,682
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleDriver
    And if you are flying a Bonanza or other aircraft with an ASI calibrated in MPH (and Knots), remember it's 90 KNOTS you F/$(;@:))!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  21. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    The True Southeast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    Thanks for the tip. I'll try to remember that should I ever attend. Just don't marshall me ahead of a Bearcat when we're leaving.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  22. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Transition from pavement to grass is pretty easy all the length of the runway. If they tell you to get off the pavement, get off.
     
  23. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    And pineapple chunks infused with rum are quite nice as you're judging landings. :popcorn:
     
    FlyingElvii likes this.
  24. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Castering nosewheels.....
    Saw three cirus (ciri?) end up like this today
     

    Attached Files:

  25. Flymeariver

    Flymeariver Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,845
    Location:
    Delaware
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Justin
    Having a hard time seeing what happened....can you help me out?
     
  26. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    The True Southeast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    Some of us can only manage 90 knots at redline.

    What about all the Cubs?
     
  27. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    7,655
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    I would love to chill out at The Kosh but I still have zero desire to fly in. And I mean zeeroh.
     
    TCABM likes this.
  28. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,594
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people. I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.

    There, I said it.
     
  29. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    The True Southeast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    Heretic! :D

    I kid! I kid!
     
  30. RalphInCA

    RalphInCA Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,256
    Location:
    Glendora, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    RalphInCA
    Fine, then stay home. You don't sound like you'd be much fun to have around anyway.

    Why do some people insist on detailing reasons they don't like something that many people thoroughly enjoy?
     
    Steve Costello likes this.
  31. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    The True Southeast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    No. 1 son
    'Cause it's a free country?
     
  32. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,594
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    Wow Ralph, judge much? I'm going to let it go because you don't know me and I don't know you. ;)
     
  33. Cajun_Flyer

    Cajun_Flyer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    New England
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cajun Flyer
    I love camping, I hate crowds, I love airpanes.

    Two outta three is good enough for me to attend.
     
  34. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,594
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    Des I didn't say anything about not loving airplanes. All I said was that I hate crowds (and I'll be more specific, meaning: large crowds) and dumb people, feeling dirty and sweaty, and sleeping in a tent with bugs and weather. I had no idea other people "thoroughly enjoyed" those things. My apologies to those who do.
     
    SkyDog58 likes this.
  35. Cajun_Flyer

    Cajun_Flyer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    New England
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cajun Flyer
    I hate dumb people too, but I'm not going for the people... especially the dumb ones. And I actually do thoroughly enjoy camping :D
     
  36. tmcquinn

    tmcquinn Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    T.McQuinn
    I envy you for your love of camping. If I could taxi up to the Hilton and check right in I'd be the happiest guy at OSH.
     
  37. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,222
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    Did my obligatory trip flying into OSH. Once is enough. Prefer Appleton - less traffic and the hotel is close by. Not a camper since high school. Altho...camping in August for the eclipse to avoid the Monday morning-worse-than-stupid-Oshkosh-flyers-that-don't-read-the-notam.
     
  38. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,222
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    And why do some people denigrate others for not enjoying something they enjoy?
     
    Timbeck2 likes this.
  39. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,594
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    I used to like camping too until I had a few miserable trips. Waking up in a pool of your own sweat. Waking up in three inches of water with a wet, collapsed tent on top of you. A camping buddy that insists on bringing his dog that got sprayed by a skunk or a camping partner that rattles you out of your sleeping bag with their snoring will do that to ya. ;)
     
    Cooter likes this.
  40. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,619
    Location:
    DXO124009
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    As far as possible would be until I level out after a rapid decrease in altitude a couple miles outside of Fisk.:rofl: