"if you cant pay cash for a plane you have no buisiness owning one"

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timrev8

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Tim
I have heard this more than once...

Is it another pilot letting me know he has money?

I would like to know how many pilots have borrowed money for their airplane.

What if i consider the bottom line for monthly costs if i go through a hard time and stop flying for a few weeks

Hanger or tie down
monthly payment for plane loan
insurance

ALSO: I am a fan of the fact that when the plane is payed off my personnel worth has gone up (airplane equity). Maybe getting there has cost lots more per hour flying but i will have something after all those hours, even if the value has gone down.
 
timrev8 said:
I would like to know how many pilots have borrowed money for their airplane.
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I did in the past, but I won't anymore. Of the 5 planes I have owned, I only financed one, IIRC.

ALSO: I am a fan of the fact that when the plane is payed off my personnel worth has gone up (airplane equity). Maybe getting there has cost lots more per hour flying but i will have something after all those hours, even if the value has gone down.
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Don't count on that. Airplane values, for the most part, have been going down faster than your ability to gain equity. IOW, you have the potential of being upside down pretty quick in this market.

(Notice the qualifiers, guys.)
 
There are definitely times when financing a plane could make sense.

However, the purchase price on most used aircraft is definitely the cheapest part about the whole affair. You could buy a $40,000 plane one day, and the next day be on the hook for a $40,000 engine replacement.

And then you can end up upsidedown in the plane and have a hard time trying to get rid of it. Especially with a blown engine.
 
timrev8 said:
I have heard this more than once...

Is it another pilot letting me know he has money?
Click to expand...

Maybe - or more likely they are just imparting their personal fiscal philosophy as being a law of the universe. Not sure anyone who holds rigorously to that philosophy would also agree with "Carpe diem."

I've also seen the phrase "The person who dies owing the most money, wins." Possibly an opposite fiscal philosophy.

The odd thing about the quote you started this thread with is that airplanes had not, till the last decade, lost much value. So you could generally unload them at or above cost.

I would like to know how many pilots have borrowed money for their airplane.
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I don't own a plane yet, but could pay cash for a new one (not that I would buy new.) It would carve a big chunk out of retirement assets, though. The question "finance or pay cash" would not be theoretical should I eventually decide to buy. Paying cash or financing would depend on a bunch of factors, not all of which I've sorted out yet!

What if i consider the bottom line for monthly costs if i go through a hard time and stop flying for a few weeks

Hanger or tie down
monthly payment for plane loan
insurance

ALSO: I am a fan of the fact that when the plane is payed off my personnel worth has gone up (airplane equity). Maybe getting there has cost lots more per hour flying but i will have something after all those hours, even if the value has gone down.
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A conservative middle philosophy might be: always make sure you have at least 1 to 2 years of savings at current expenditure levels to live off of should your income cease. (Add more years the older you get.) That guideline doesn't rule out financing an airplane once you've reached that threshold.
 
I used a loan to buy mine, but only because I had an unused Home Equity Line of Credit available at 3.25% (tax deductible) and it didn't make sense to liquidate securities to buy the plane when (at the time) those equities were earning much more than that.

Less than a year later the engine blew at 1,000 feet and I needed to plunk down $34k for a new engine (and another $50 for a new pair of pants). Now it made sense to spend the cash.

I don't think you have to pay cash for a plane, but you need to know that you will have whatever it takes to keep it flying, or at least put it back together if something happens. And I strongly urge you not to count too much on equity buildup.
 
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Borrow the money if you dont have to borrow the money ;) .

Just like with oversized houses bought with help of the bank, it is all fine and well until the day that your available income drops for a couple of months, be it through short term disability, job loss or financial needs related to medical issues. A plane you bought outright you can just put on tiedown, pay minimal insurance and let the annual expire. A plane bought on credit is like a horse, it needs to get fed every month. Financing without keeping a good amount in a contingency fund (for that cracked case, broken cylinder or metal in oil) is asking for trouble.
 
I borrowed money in 1994 for my '74 cherokee 140.

Definitely different financial times than today.
 
I financed about 5K of mine. If you count the payments as an expense, I've about broken even over renting. I had enough in cash to make the purchase but not enough for airline tickets for myself and the ferry pilot to go get it, insurance and immediatley had my A&P tear it apart and give it a 2K working over I figured I could make the FBO's payment on their rental or mine with the money. My minimum payment was about 100 bucks less than a tank of gas, beat digging into retirement money.
 
"if you cant pay cash for a plane you have no buisiness owning one"
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Almost worthy of an eye-roll.
Sure, if you are already on a shoestring budget and have important commitments that must not be shorted (family requirements or other notes) then you might be wise to only use disposable income but I'd bet many, many people got into aviation safely, through wise use of loans. I did.
 
Ive been debating the same thing...... loan vs. cash.
I would agree with some of whats been said, "Borrow the money if you don't HAVE to borrow the money".
Currently, interest rates are low, I'd bet at a good rate now you would be better off in 10 years having gotten a loan and investing the cash. You need to really understand your cash flow, If you lost your job today...... how long could you float all of your monthly expenses? (Answer should be greater than 12 months).
If the plane loan pushes you where you don't want to be, pay cash, buy a cheaper plane, pick up a partner.

I built a spreadsheet for weighing the options for my own personal search. PM me with your email, if you want a copy. Screenshot below. There is another table below which accounts for the equity gained (average) so you have a better idea of costs for buying / renting.

Plane%252520Costs%2525209-26-11.jpg
 
Ask yourself a few questions:

1) If the engine has to be overhauled, do I have the cash to have it overhauled?

2) Do I have the cash to purchase a new prop if needed?

3) Do I have the cash for a large unscheduled maintenance event?

4) Do I have the funds to pay for an average annual inspection?

If you can't answer yes to any of these, I suggest you rethink aircraft ownership.
 
I don't borrow money (home on a 10 year note being the exception). YMMV
 
I adhere to that philosophy. For the utilization rate personal aircraft see, I simply can't justify financing expenses on top of all the maintenance. All that aside, the airplane I did buy cash, did not fit my mission profile (C-150). I am glad I owned it for the year and a half that I did. It convinced me that aviation is retarded expensive and the ROI not really there. I bought a Jeep and a jet ski with two thirds of what I got back from the sale on the 150 and get much more utilization and time with friends than I ever did dragging my exwife to putz around in the Cessna. I've grown fond of the idea of partnership, but then I wake up and realize I went solo on the -150 venture for a reason. Meh.

To each their own. I certainly can admit that I'm not wealthy enough to afford aviation and in the same sentence assert I wouldnt pay asking price for a Malibu type performance (which would certainly exceed my mission requirements) even if I had the money to blow. I don't think six figures of capital is worth the paltry performance when I normalize for utilization rate, money or no money. Financing at that point seems like a moot point. I do have military aviation available to me, which is why I'm able to quench my desire to fly while being copacetic about the fact I'm about effed as far as ever being able to afford aviation privately. I do see it getting cheaper once the boomers die off (no market to sell to but us fence watchers with experience but no money). Here's to hoping.

34K for new motor; this a 1960s technology contraption with magnetos no less...Pff forget that. I rest my case.
 
My personal approach is this: If it's a necessity, you have to have it, then finance if you must but pay cash if you can. If it's a toy, don't buy it if you can't pay for it. I've seen way too many friends and coworkers get way over their heads because they have a bunch of toys financed when things go wrong. One couple had to sell their house -- fast -- at least partly because they owed so much on their motorcycle, camper, jet skis, etc. Another had just bought a new truck for him, new car for her and a new house when he got laid off. You can guess the rest. The toys don't sell too well in a down economy, and if you owe more than they're worth it gets worse.

I may have to have a mortgage on the house, but If things ever go bad and we have to cut corners I can sell the bike and any future airplane (owned outright) and be rid of them and their insurance and upkeep. Might not be able to do that if they're financed.

If you can't afford to pay cash for an airplane, but REALLY want one, figure out what you'd spend every month on a hangar or tiedown, insurance, maintenance, etc. Sock that money away until you have enough to buy one. If that means you don't get to fly much, well, you have to make a choice. Fly someone else's rental now, or fly your own later. And in a couple of years they'll probably be even cheaper, with the way things are going now.
 
WOW Chris, that is a lot of work!! thanks for sharing

I have definitely decided to buy. Cause it is awesome to own an airplane!!!!

its just the money thing...

it might be a few more years for me.
 
JOhnH said:
Less than a year later the engine blew at 1,000 feet and I needed to plunk down $34k for a new engine (and another $50 for a new pair of pants).
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A bit of thread drift, but have any of the insurance companies ever considered offering a product that might cover situations like this? On surface, appears that if priced right, it could be a reasonable risk for both parties (they risk big payout (but spread over the many hundreds paying into the premium pot), we lose loss of premium if no claim ever filed) and possibly decently profitable for the insurer.
 
Guess my boss who bought a brand new jet and a columbia is a dam fool for not paying cash.
 
timrev8 said:
WOW Chris, that is a lot of work!! thanks for sharing

I have definitely decided to buy. Cause it is awesome to own an airplane!!!!

its just the money thing...

it might be a few more years for me.
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Single ownership has lots and lots of perks, but also a lot of financial responsibility (as you've seen detailed here).

But don't neglect looking into different shared ownership opportunities in your area. Likely more exist than you're aware of.

Flying clubs can be a very good deal that can provided good aircraft to budget challenged pilots at a price we can afford. And have the benefit of spreading the big costs and surprises amongst more people so the impact to you is low if not negligable.

For an example that is close to me, check out RFCDALLAS.com.
 
My partner and I borrowed to purchase the 58P six years ago. Put down a good down payment; never missed a payment. Now, with high time engines, it's not worth the current loan amount, but we have a side fund completely funded to reman the engines this January. After that, the plane will be worth more than the loan amount again.

It's all about debt management. I could pay if off now (couldn't when I took it out). I knew my financial situation would continue to improve and my partner felt the same. At the time, I got better returns on my equity in my business. That's now changed, but the loan is starting to amortize more now and we've made an extra principal payment or two.

Just a matter of managing money properly. If you're on a tight budget without much upside in your income, it would be an aggressive move. I think a lot of folks have gotten surprised at the amount of value planes have dropped the last couple years. Some have lost jobs or had income drop unexpectedly.

Keep in mind, a plane is a depreciating asset. Everything has wear and tear.
I'd rather have more money in appreciating assets if those choices are available. I love the 58P but look at it as a nice extra I can afford that will continue to need cash to keep it properly maintained; some people mix it up with a good investment and get in trouble.

As an aside, I looked at TBMs a couple years ago. A new one was about 3.5 million. folks said they held their value very well. Today, a 1996 850 can be purchased for under $2 million. It takes me too long to make 1.5 million to have an airplane decline in value that much for me <g>. I also made a promise to myself that I wouldn't put more in an airplane than my house was worth.

Best,

Dave
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Ask yourself a few questions:

1) If the engine has to be overhauled, do I have the cash to have it overhauled?

2) Do I have the cash to purchase a new prop if needed?

3) Do I have the cash for a large unscheduled maintenance event?

4) Do I have the funds to pay for an average annual inspection?

If you can't answer yes to any of these, I suggest you rethink aircraft ownership.
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That's pretty big, you're assuming nobody wants to take any risks whatsoever and must keep the plane running and airworthy under any possible circumstance, my next plane will be a complex high performance plane and I'll go without hull insurance until I can get the time under my belt to make the insurance reasonable, it'll be a 60-70K gamble that I won't crash it... Should I have cash on hand to replace it if I chose to do that?

I bought my plane with 500SMOH on it and have put 200 hrs on it since then, if the engine eats itself tomorow, I'm SOL I can't replace it with cash on hand and probably wouldn't hit my investments for it either. I'm gambling that it will make another 200hrs or so then sell it to upgrade. If it doesn't, I'm prepared for the loss.
 
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Rotor&Wing said:
Ask yourself a few questions:

1) If the engine has to be overhauled, do I have the cash to have it overhauled?

2) Do I have the cash to purchase a new prop if needed?

3) Do I have the cash for a large unscheduled maintenance event?

4) Do I have the funds to pay for an average annual inspection?

If you can't answer yes to any of these, I suggest you rethink aircraft ownership.
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Wow! About the only thing I can answer "yes" to is number 4. I've owned my airplane for 15 years, keep it well maintained but don't have a toolbox full of cash sitting in the hangar for those other things.:yikes:

What your described in your post is probably the upper crust elite of aviation. Sorry, but most of us are bottom feeders I guess. I will promise to approach my wife with: "hey honey, okay if I divert $40K or so from our daughters college fund so that I can have all these reserves for my $30K Cherokee??"

I'll get back to you with my response...........if I survive. ;)
 
Dave Siciliano said:
My partner and I borrowed to purchase the 58P six years ago. Put down a good down payment; never missed a payment. Now, with high time engines, it's not worth the current loan amount, but we have a side fund completely funded to reman the engines this January. After that, the plane will be worth more than the loan amount again.

It's all about debt management. I could pay if off now (couldn't when I took it out). I knew my financial situation would continue to improve and my partner felt the same. At the time, I got better returns on my equity in my business. That's now changed, but the loan is starting to amortize more now and we've made an extra principal payment or two.

Just a matter of managing money properly. If you're on a tight budget without much upside in your income, it would be an aggressive move. I think a lot of folks have gotten surprised at the amount of value planes have dropped the last couple years. Some have lost jobs or had income drop unexpectedly.

Keep in mind, a plane is a depreciating asset. Everything has wear and tear.
I'd rather have more money in appreciating assets if those choices are available. I love the 58P but look at it as a nice extra I can afford that will continue to need cash to keep it properly maintained; some people mix it up with a good investment and get in trouble.

As an aside, I looked at TBMs a couple years ago. A new one was about 3.5 million. folks said they held their value very well. Today, a 1996 850 can be purchased for under $2 million. It takes me too long to make 1.5 million to have an airplane decline in value that much for me <g>. I also made a promise to myself that I wouldn't put more in an airplane than my house was worth.

Best,

Dave
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All sound advice (but I'd expect nothing less from Dave).

However, I have to admit I'm almost shocked that you're going to overhaul the engines! :)
 
Pa28-140 said:
What your described in your post is probably the upper crust elite of aviation. Sorry, but most of us are bottom feeders I guess. I will promise to approach my wife with: "hey honey, okay if I divert $40K or so from our daughters college fund so that I can have all these reserves for my $30K Cherokee??"
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'money in toolbox' can be substituted with 'ready access to credit', e.g. a heloc that is approved but not used to any significant extent.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Maybe - or more likely they are just imparting their personal fiscal philosophy as being a law of the universe. Not sure anyone who holds rigorously to that philosophy would also agree with "Carpe diem."

More than likely they are just imparting what they learned from their experience leveraging the purchase of an airplane. Bear in mind that this financial advice doesn't include a mandate that you must pay cash for the airplane, just that you have the funds available to do so.

As Rotor points out (and those of us who have BTDT will attest) both amount and timing of unscheduled expenses are highly unpredictable. As a result, the "how much is enough" question is almost impossible to answer. If the purchase is financed of necessity, the owner may be faced with unacceptable loan-to-value ratios for refinancing necessary repairs, at which point the cheese can get even more binding.

I've also seen the phrase "The person who dies owing the most money, wins." Possibly an opposite fiscal philosophy.

The odd thing about the quote you started this thread with is that airplanes had not, till the last decade, lost much value. So you could generally unload them at or above cost.

Having owned airplanes almost continuously since 1964, I can dispel that rumor. Selling at a gain over original purchase price wasn't uncommon for owners who kept their airplanes for a number of years, but was highly dependent on the year of sale. Buyers of new airplanes typically saw their values decline during the first few years after purchase, and any appreciation was normally achieved thereafter. The annual unit production (available from numerous sources) provides a good indication of market condition at the time.

As an example of the wide swings in market value over the years, my partner and I bought a new (and superbly equipped at the time) T-210 in January 1982 for roughly $135k. When he died in 1987 it appraised for approximately half of the original purchase price. I bought his interest from his estate and held the airplane until 1999, at which time I sold it for ~$180K. So I made a nice gain after maintaining my ownership for 13 additional years, but my partner's estate lost approximately half of it's investment when it sold the airplane after 6 years of ownership. By coincidence, 1999-2000 marked the all-time high-water point in aircraft values prior to the market decline that culminated on 9-11-2001.

I don't own a plane yet, but could pay cash for a new one (not that I would buy new.) It would carve a big chunk out of retirement assets, though. The question "finance or pay cash" would not be theoretical should I eventually decide to buy. Paying cash or financing would depend on a bunch of factors, not all of which I've sorted out yet!

Sorting out is usually the hard part, for the factors you mention. While you could liquidate assets to pay cash for the airplane (with possible adverse tax consequences if from a qualified plan) the other questions of financial prudence and capital exposure arise as a result.

A conservative middle philosophy might be: always make sure you have at least 1 to 2 years of savings at current expenditure levels to live off of should your income cease. (Add more years the older you get.) That guideline doesn't rule out financing an airplane once you've reached that threshold.
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Isn't two years of living expenses in the bank about the same as the cost of many airplanes? If so, aren't you echoing the philosophy on which the thread was predicated?
 
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AggieMike88 said:
A bit of thread drift, but have any of the insurance companies ever considered offering a product that might cover situations like this? On surface, appears that if priced right, it could be a reasonable risk for both parties (they risk big payout (but spread over the many hundreds paying into the premium pot), we lose loss of premium if no claim ever filed) and possibly decently profitable for the insurer.
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Great idea and I would certainly be a customer. I hope some insurance company takes notice. Anybody got any ideas on how to suggest that?

Of course,that is one more expense to factor into the cost of ownership, but at least it is a predictable expense, unlike "be ready for anything". NOBODY I know can be ready for ANYTHING.
 
n20junkie said:
Guess my boss who bought a brand new jet and a columbia is a dam fool for not paying cash.
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Not for paying cash but buying new. Why anyone would buy a new depreciating liability is beyond my comprehension. Same goes with cars. Without looking at research I suspect he could have acquired both aircraft at a sizeable discount if they had a few hundred hours on them. I will acknowledge buying new may be better with current business tax incentives but I have not dug into those incentives as I'm not in the market.
 
Airplanes are like children. If you wait until you think you can afford one, you're going to be a very old person (and likely never have any).

I financed my plane. I also was prepared for the eventual $2000+ checks you'll have to write towards unseen expense. I did manage to pay it off before the original 10 year AOPA (MBNA idiots) loan term ended.

Of course, other than engine time, most used aircraft do not depreciate. Mine pretty much blue booked out the same until I started restoring it.
 
Wayne, good to have you back! :yes:

I've been fortunate in my aircraft ownership to have few unexpected costs. I had to do a top overhaul on the Aztec's left engine (at 650 SMOH), and the right engine mount broke on it (which was a lot of hours of labor mostly). My avionics repair on it was planned, but ended up costing about 75% more than intended due to other things that got done while in there. 100-hours have cost between $10,000 and $1,000.

The 310 had an unplanned avionics failure (AI and HSI replacement), not cheap. Avionics stuff gets especially bad with "While you're there..."

This is over about 1100 hours of flying between the two aircraft.

The thing to remember is that most of the aircraft we look at buying are in the range of 30-50 years old. While you have some people who've managed to get great deals with virtually no maintenance on the planes, I think the vast majority of us have found that there's more maintenance involved at varying costs.

What I end up seeing are a lot of people who don't fly their planes because of this exact situation. For example, the Mooney I used to rent I ended up flying a lot more than the owners. They bought the plane, had to spend a couple thousand on a DG, about $11,000 for bladders when the wet wings were leaking (and they weren't happy with the reports they saw about repairing the wet wings), etc. So they ended up really strapped for cash, and my renting the plane was basically making a good sum of the payments for them.

And it doesn't have to be a complex or a twin - I see it happen enough with 172s and Cherokees. You're still looking at $20,000 or so for an engine overhaul on one of those. I know one person who's got somewhere well north of $100,000 into her Warrior that she'd be lucky to sell for half that. Now she wants to upgrade, but has invested so much money in this thing...

Anyone who knows me knows I'm a big fan of carpe diem. But, I'm also a fan of caveat emptor.
 
steingar said:
Never borrow money to buy a toy.
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For some of us, these are tools. But you still have to look at the total costs for the tool and how you expect to be able to amortize those out. Nevermind the fact that the costs of owning and operating this tool will undoubtedly go up.
 
Ted: I may not be using the correct term, but about the only thing my old engines will have in common with the new ones is the number on the case <g> What would be the proper term? reman is what I think I said rather than overhaul, but I'm not the expert you are in that area.

Best,

Dave
 
pilot_dude said:
Not for paying cash but buying new. Why anyone would buy a new depreciating liability is beyond my comprehension. Same goes with cars. Without looking at research I suspect he could have acquired both aircraft at a sizeable discount if they had a few hundred hours on them. I will acknowledge buying new may be better with current business tax incentives but I have not dug into those incentives as I'm not in the market.
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I never purchase a new car, but am glad others do <g>. For many years, I've used a service that bids for them at dealer auctions for cars coming off lease. I've purchased cars for about 60% of the new price three years old for cash and driven them many years; then, given them to family members most of the time. I would consider new if I put a lot of miles on in my business and needed it to be just so. My last purchase was a three year old 335i BMW with under 20,000 miles for about 60% of the original purchase price. Love the car. Glad someone else broke it in and paid about $20,000 in depreciation instead of me <g>

Best,

Dave
 
Ted DuPuis said:
For some of us, these are tools. But you still have to look at the total costs for the tool and how you expect to be able to amortize those out. Nevermind the fact that the costs of owning and operating this tool will undoubtedly go up.
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I said toy, not tool. You need tools, you don't need toys. Like I said, never go into debt for a toy.

Admittedly, there was a time when an airplane made sense as an investment. But that ended years ago and is unlikely to return.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Ted: I may not be using the correct term, but about the only thing my old engines will have in common with the new ones is the number on the case <g> What would be the proper term? reman is what I think I said rather than overhaul, but I'm not the expert you are in that area.

Best,

Dave
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Oh, I was more referring to the fact that your engines had been going past TBO in record numbers so happily. I was cheering you on to get to 3000 SMOH. :)

We're at 250 past TBO on the 310's IO-520s right now, also happily. I suspect sometime next year we'll get them overhauled. If we can secure the funding, an upgrade to 550s would be good. We already have the props for the 550 conversion.
 
One way to look at his comment, perhaps:

You don't have to actually pay cash for the plane, but you should have that cash in your bank account. He only said "if you can't", not, "if you don't".

Having the cash in the bank account is actually pretty darn smart, and if you are conservative, for something that is a toy, yeah, I can see why "if you cannot pay cash for it you have no business buying it".

Any purchase that isn't necessary should never be at the expense of "sacrificing" on other things (unless those other things are themselves not necessities, IE, "go on four vacations this year, or, buy an airplane", versus "buy an airplane or afford rent/mortgage".)

ps. I wonder if it's more cost effective to have a brand new airplane than buying a really old one that is going to have 20K+ bills annually. Or if not more cost effective, more bang for your buck. New stuff that works, etc.
 
I paid cash for my airplane, but only because I had had a windfall of enough money to do it. That was during the good times, so it didn't seem like a big deal.

Even without any payments, with the slight economic downturn the private sector has been experiencing the last few years, it has become a real financial burden having an airplane. Every annual is several thousand dollars or more, then the little things that keep popping up that need fixing, plus gas and oil, it ain't cheap.

Selling it isn't so easy either. Unless you are sure of your income, think twice about going into debt for anything, even a car.

John
 
steingar said:
Never borrow money to buy a toy.
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Ted DuPuis said:
For some of us, these are tools. But you still have to look at the total costs for the tool and how you expect to be able to amortize those out. Nevermind the fact that the costs of owning and operating this tool will undoubtedly go up.
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You are both right, if it's a toy pay cash, if you will be putting it to work for you finance.


Now if you can get an interest rate lower than the return you can get on your cash then financing the toy might make sence.:wink2:
 
John Baker said:
I paid cash for my airplane, but only because I had had a windfall of enough money to do it. That was during the good times, so it didn't seem like a big deal.

Even without any payments, with the slight economic downturn the private sector has been experiencing the last few years, it has become a real financial burden having an airplane. Every annual is several thousand dollars or more, then the little things that keep popping up that need fixing, plus gas and oil, it ain't cheap.

Selling it isn't so easy either. Unless you are sure of your income, think twice about going into debt for anything, even a car.

John
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Agreed, I could never sell my plane, but if Angie can't get a job in her career field soon I might have to consider mothballing it:sad::sad:
 
Skylane81E said:
Now if you can get an interest rate lower than the return you can get on your cash then financing the toy might make sence.:wink2:
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That assumes that you have the cash. This has been pointed out earlier, if you can make a better return by putting the money into your business, and you still have enough reserves, financing even a toy can make sense (these days it is easier to borrow money for assets than a business venture).
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I also made a promise to myself that I wouldn't put more in an airplane than my house was worth.
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That is a good promise....on the other hand, I've always had this dream of owning a 'house plane'.....often fantasize about buying a DC-4/6, parking it somewhere and living out of it......it would be great....I could park the cars under the wings....even have sheltered parking for the 170!

Unfortunately, my wife isn't as keen on the idea....
 
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