If anyone was at Blairstown airport yesterday...

[jasc15]

...you're welcome for the performance. For those that didn't see, I was having a hell of a time getting the 172 on the ground. It was only my second time in the plane, so I obviously didn't have much practice. The first approach was terrible. I couldn't lose altitude, and the hills to the south of the field, which you fly over on the pattern for 25, made me a little hesitant to decend. I was way too high to even try to land, and i was thinking go-around on my base-final turn. I did, and made another lap around the pattern, making nearly the same mistakes as last time. Only difference is that i used up 3/4 of the runway, and was pretty low before i decided on the go around. On the third lap I was still pretty high, but a slip with idle power finally got me down. I found a parking spot on the grass, and as i walked toward the restaurant I was approached by someone hanging out by the plane next to me who happened to be a CFI. After a good talk, I had some breakfast and he approached me again offering to take a few rides around the pattern with me. He was very helpful, and I had 3 really good approaches and some decent landings. Looking back, it was much better than an uneventful day since it was a learning experience.

 

[saracelica]

At least you were smart enough to do a "Go around" when you didn't like it.

 

[Anthony]

Good job. I've been into Blairstown several times. It can get interesting there sometimes. Its a license to learn and you did!

 

[skyjunkie]

Hi Joe!
Please permit me, and I mean no offense, BUT, it seems to me (an old pilot, but not a bold pilot) that you trained at an airport with long, wide runways.... (FRG maybe??) You are showing the beginnings of a VERY bad and dangerous habit. You described making TWO attempts at the runway. You did the right thing on the first..... recognized a too high approach early and went around; but on the second you got the airplane down (finally) after using 3/4 of the runway. YIKES! that's THREE QUARTERS!! If you continue this (dangerous) "mind set" it's only a matter of time until you try it at some field with a 2700 ft runway and either run off the end or attempt a go-around too late and fly into something.

GET INTO THE HABIT NOW OF GOING AROUND IF YOU ARE NOT ON IN THE FIRST 1/3 OF THE RUNWAY.

You need to be at the correct airspeed (1.3 VSO +/-) and ON THE RWY in the first third (even at FRG, MMU, TTN, TEB, or CDW). Sooner or later anything other than this will result in trouble. Your first high approach resulted in a certain outcome...... your second high approach should have had the same outcome. Please don't get in the habit of making 'saves' on poor approaches or landings. Go around.

Grab a good CFI and head over to Somerset (KSMQ) or Andover (12N) and you'll see why I feel so strongly about this. Do NOT try this without a good CFI.
Good Luck..... fly safe
SkyJunkie

 

[bbchien]

I think Joe just lands too fast for Blairstown. A lot of pilots apporach too fast. Then you can't lose altitude, and have to slip (slipping is okay). Figure out what 1.3Vso really is, put the flaps out and indicate whatever IAS it takes to have .3 VSO for your TAS. When thing aren't going well, get back to basics.

 

[jasc15]

I did train at an airport with a ~6000' runway, but I am no stranger to <3000' runways (maybe that's still long to many folks). Many places I've been to in the last 6 months had short runways (i.e., 44N, UUU, BID, MTP). Also, when landing at FRG, I aim for the numbers and usually make the first or second turn-off. This is not to say that there was some poor judgement on my part, especially on my second go-around. I should have pulled the plug earlier on.

 

[Joe B]

GET INTO THE HABIT NOW OF GOING AROUND IF YOU ARE NOT ON IN THE FIRST 1/3 OF THE RUNWAY.

+1. I put a Cherokee into the weeds making exactly this mistake at an 1800' airport. Fortunately not far enough into the weeds to hurt anything more than a few dandelions. But far enough to teach me a darn good lesson. It made me a great fan both of going around early and of airspeed control!

RWY 25 at Blairstown is indeed an interesting approach. It's not just the hills on downwind that give you pause - that hill on 1/2 mile final screws with your mind as well. Bravo to Joe (the other one) for making this a learning experience, and to the CFI that helped him.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I am no stranger to <3000' runways (maybe that's still long to many folks). Many places I've been to in the last 6 months had short runways (i.e., 44N, UUU, BID, MTP).

Indeed, if you fly GA in New England, you tend to get plenty of experience with short runways. I remember thinking that 4/22 (2999') at UUU was a long one!

 

[rottydaddy]

RWY 25 at Blairstown is indeed an interesting approach. It's not just the hills on downwind that give you pause - that hill on 1/2 mile final screws with your mind as well.

A good point- try some short/narrow runways that have a little more "breathing room", like the aforementioned Andover and Somerset.

Andover has some hills and lots of trees around it, but the approaches couldn't be easier- largish ponds at both ends. Water may look uninviting, but it tends to be much flatter than trees, etc... it's no different than grass in that regard. Just don't touch down on it, and you'll be fine.

Early in my flying days, I once put a 172 on that runway in negligible wind and exited without braking less than halfway down. That felt pretty good, especially because I planned it that way. Not bragging- I just did it right, and so can just about anybody if they slow down and stay slowed down, and plan the final leg so that they touch down in the first third of the runway.

 

[AirplaneIt]

OP Joe, what were the winds like? I've seen time and time again when people were using the designated "calm wind" runway in calm conditions only to have a fairly significant tailwind above the trees while coming down final. They couldn't seem to figure out why they just "couldn't get down". It doesn't take much tailwind to significantly alter your decent angle.

 

[jasc15]

The windsock was pointing ~25, but it was limp, and was prob just stuck that way from the last wind strong enough to move it. Needless to say, winds were calm.

 

[elmetal]

I did train at an airport with a ~6000' runway, but I am no stranger to <3000' runways (maybe that's still long to many folks). Many places I've been to in the last 6 months had short runways (i.e., 44N, UUU, BID, MTP). Also, when landing at FRG, I aim for the numbers and usually make the first or second turn-off. This is not to say that there was some poor judgement on my part, especially on my second go-around. I should have pulled the plug earlier on.

3000 for a 172 is awfully long...

you should be able to safely stop a 172 in 1200 feet or less if it's clean asphalt (as in not pebbles, not turf, not wet, not iced)

 

[elmetal]

I did train at an airport with a ~6000' runway, but I am no stranger to <3000' runways (maybe that's still long to many folks). Many places I've been to in the last 6 months had short runways (i.e., 44N, UUU, BID, MTP). Also, when landing at FRG, I aim for the numbers and usually make the first or second turn-off. This is not to say that there was some poor judgement on my part, especially on my second go-around. I should have pulled the plug earlier on.

I didn't mean to be so arrogant in my earlier post.

What I mean is: When you get down to 2000-1500 foot runways, you find out that the approach speed really is everything. if I come in at 65-70 on final with 20deg flaps, I can probably eat up 2000-2500 feet of runway, but if I come in at 60-65, I can be down and stopped in 1500.

If you come in with 30 deg, at 55-60, you basically stop on a dime.

I'm not condoning making landings at or below 55 kts (Vso*1.3 = 52 or 53 I believe so it's still plenty ok), but it really makes a difference.

I try to stay at 60 to be safe, and it also may have been mentioned, but take the 55 or 60 whatever you choose, and add half of the gust factor if there is one.

winds 030015g30 = add 7.5 or 8 to your typical approach speed.

I know you probably already know that but it's nice to get a reminder from your peers sometimes. I know reading this forum has helped me in more ways than I can count and I'm thankful for that

Good luck!

also a quick tip I learned back when I was learning short fields in my primary training: There are 2 ways to land an airplane. There's a short landing, and there's a smooth landing. To try both is foolish.

When you need to get down, you get down.

 

[Jack Spectre]

You described making TWO attempts at the runway. You did the right thing on the first..... recognized a too high approach early and went around; but on the second you got the airplane down (finally) after using 3/4 of the runway.

Nope, he went around on the 2nd attempt because he recognized he was burning up runway too fast. He landed on the 3rd try.

On the third lap I was still pretty high, but a slip with idle power finally got me down.