Ideation moratorium

B

Being Cautious

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I understand there is an unwritten rule that suicide ideation has a 10-year moratorium.

Does anyone know anybody who has been past the 10-year moratorium and successfully received their 3rd class medical?

For those who have gone through the above, what did the process involve?

I have not seen an AME for a consultation yet. I wonder if I would be better off going the Sport-Pilot route.
 
LOTS of “alcoholics” express suicidal ideation and get certified in a year…. Of course EVERY ONE I know is a airline backed part 121 pilot.
 
Seems to be a lot of recommendations for persons that might have a condition that could keep them from obtaining a third class medical to go LSA. I suppose they're told this so they may be able to experience the magic of being a pilot, and I completely understand.
However, this may open too many doors, such as a person who has experienced seizures in the past but who has not had one recently, or someone having a history of suicide ideation.
According to 14 CFR 61.23 (c)(2)(iv) a person using a driver's license to qualify as an LSA pilot must "not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner."
Of course, it could be said the person was in fact operating the aircraft in a safe manner between episodes.
Just "sayin".
 
Dwayne said:
According to 14 CFR 61.23 (c)(2)(iv) a person using a driver's license to qualify as an LSA pilot must "not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner."
Of course, it could be said the person was in fact operating the aircraft in a safe manner between episodes.
Just "sayin".
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that’s the gist of it and it depends on how you read it. It’s intentional vague. But it depends on who makes that determination. The people in the lsa (or basic med) believe that is made by the pilot and maybe their pcp. Whereas some interpret that to be any condition that would fail you with an AME in a class 1/2/3 medical. You will get plenty of differing opinions on that - but what you mention is absolutely an area of concern
 
Ok, so this got me to thinking. Exactly what is suicidal ideation as defined by the FAA? It seem there is a brand range of thoughts that could land on the spectrum. This from the National Library of Medicine:

"Suicidal ideations (SI), often called suicidal thoughts or ideas, is a broad term used to describe a range of contemplations, wishes, and preoccupations with death and suicide. There is no universally accepted consistent definition of SI, which leads to ongoing challenges for clinicians, researchers, and educators.[1] [2] For example, in research studies, SI is frequently given different operational definitions. [3]This interferes with the ability to compare findings across studies and is frequently mentioned as a limitation in meta-analyses associated with suicidality. [4] Some SI definitions include suicide planning deliberations, while others consider planning to be a discrete stage."

So what standard does AeroMed use to determine who is a suitable candidate for a certificate?
 
Go back about 3 discrete and obvious medical profession updates…

Not being snarky, that just seems to be what they do.

Problematic in the heart health world, they demand procedures now considered somewhat dangerous compared to what’s currently available.

In the substance abuse world it’s pre DSM IV.

In commercial aircraft, wicker seats without seat belts are just fine, if that’s what the type certificate FROM THE 20’s says.

This isn’t all bad, but there’s a pretty clear trend. It seems more risk adverse than well thought out. The problem runs deep, they’ve created a situation where they cannot unscrew a bad decision… so they just refuse to make a decision.

The band Rush said it best… “if you choose to not decide, you still have made a choice…”. They have clearly chosen risk adversion over as safe as reasonable.
 
It is left vague enough such that the Psychiatrist has the latitude to make a determination if reality testing failed.

Psychiatrists as a whole have pretty good (it’s astonishing) concordance on this one…but it’s tough to define whether it rises to psychosis or not….and one can’t deliver medical school psychiatry 301 nor psychiatry residency to a forum.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing a Psychiatrist for an evaluation if it was one and done. Though I have a feeling it is more complicated than that.

The only problem I have with going the Sport Pilot route, is that there are no light sport aircraft to train in within a respectable distance from either home nor work.
I will have to wait for MOSAIC to be finalized before I can do any training.
 
Anthem said:
that’s the gist of it and it depends on how you read it. It’s intentional vague. But it depends on who makes that determination. The people in the lsa (or basic med) believe that is made by the pilot and maybe their pcp. Whereas some interpret that to be any condition that would fail you with an AME in a class 1/2/3 medical. You will get plenty of differing opinions on that - but what you mention is absolutely an area of concern
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I wonder about possible liability.
In a situation involving a poster who wants to be a pilot but being aware of his prior "suicidal ideations", he turns to a site like POA to get advice prior to applying for a medical. He's told to "go" LSA, which of course requires only a driver's license.
After completing all requirements and accumulating a fair number of hours in his LSA, he's involved in a crash that takes his life and the lives of others on the ground. His LSA is the only plane involved.
Investigations show there is no explanation for the cause of the accident (no issues with physical health, mechanical, weather, etc).
The only item of concern is the prior "suicidal ideations".
Sorry for the negative thoughts, but I'm just askin'.
 
Dwayne said:
I wonder about possible liability.
In a situation involving a poster who wants to be a pilot but being aware of his prior "suicidal ideations", he turns to a site like POA to get advice prior to applying for a medical. He's told to "go" LSA, which of course requires only a driver's license.
After completing all requirements and accumulating a fair number of hours in his LSA, he's involved in a crash that takes his life and the lives of others on the ground. His LSA is the only plane involved.
Investigations show there is no explanation for the cause of the accident (no issues with physical health, mechanical, weather, etc).
The only item of concern is the prior "suicidal ideations".
Sorry for the negative thoughts, but I'm just askin'.
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There are differing opinions here on many of those facets. The reality is that the FAA is pretty black and white and that section reads as it does. But some interpret that for Basic med or for LSA that it was intended for the PCP and the pilot to make the safety determination. Many believe that the FAA has just punted because they dont require an actual medical for it. They kind of hint - that they are just streamlining it instead of going through the medical process. The kicker is that if you failed ANY medical certificate, you are eliminated from Sport as well. And that determination is that if they know of a disqualifying condition - then they act upon it and say you arent eligible. So that /should/ read that any known disqualification is a disqualifying - but some read that - well if you've never been tested and they havent busted you on it - then you're good to go. No one has agreed on all the different nuances of that.
 
Anthem said:
The kicker is that if you failed ANY medical certificate, you are eliminated from Sport as well. And that determination is that if they know of a disqualifying condition - then they act upon it and say you arent eligible. So that /should/ read that any known disqualification is a disqualifying - but some read that - well if you've never been tested and they havent busted you on it - then you're good to go. No one has agreed on all the different nuances of that.
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At the beginning and end of the day it is the pilot that is responsible for whether they are fit to fly ...
 
Daleandee said:
At the beginning and end of the day it is the pilot that is responsible for whether they are fit to fly ...
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And i bet the FAA heavily disagrees with that statement. If you are a certificated pilot and then use IMSAFE - sure. but something suffering with BPD with Psychosis probably believes they are fit to fly every day of the week regardless of which state they are in. Not even sure they know when the beginning of the day or the end of the day even is at. . .. .
 
Anthem said:
And i bet the FAA heavily disagrees with that statement. If you are a certificated pilot and then use IMSAFE - sure. but something suffering with BPD with Psychosis probably believes they are fit to fly every day of the week regardless of which state they are in. Not even sure they know when the beginning of the day or the end of the day even is at. . .. .
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I get your point (and mostly agree) but in reality the person getting in the plane whether cleared by a doctor or not is the responsible party if/when something goes wrong ...
 
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