Idea for consideration

R

RobertGerace

Guest
The threads that start with..."Approach for your consideration..." are extremely helpful for me.

I think my weakest point in instrument flying is now the very subtle nuances (sometimes not so subtle) of approach plates.

In reading IFR refresher last night, they were talking about a complex approach with a visual segment...great stuff. Along the way the said, "Note the waypoint xxxxx is a Fly-Over...not a Fly-By...so no cutting the corner on this one."

I had noticed when I read the approach that the waypoint was different, but shrugged it off as something I didn't understand. (Note: to my point in the other thread...every single time that I don't understand something (or something is out of the ordinary that I don't take the time to fix or explain) I'm disappointed with my performance.)

I'm thinking that either I never learned (or didn't know) that the weird looking waypoint is fly-over not fly-by. Of course, this could lead to rocks in the clouds.

I would like to do much more of the 'approach for discussion.' I'm wondering if it would be possible to do it over the telephone. We could use my conferencing system (maybe 30 minutes in an evening?)

I can put up to 30 people on it, but I think 10 would be better. We would need Ben to choose an approach, and a CFII to help us disect it.

I would donate the cost of the system (everyone would call a toll free number), and I'm hoping the CFII would donate the 30 minutes of instruction.

Please let me know if you think this would work, and if it is a good or bad idea.

Thanks!
 
Bob I am always available on a spot note but I think timing 30 people together is difficult. Getting a Lifeline Pilots Executive Committee (the seven most contributing directors) together is HARD. These are BUSY People. You are too....
 
I have some vague thoughts on this but no time to cogitate them properly right now. If I fail to post them in the next day or two, remind me, ok? :)
 
bbchien said:
Bob I am always available on a spot note but I think timing 30 people together is difficult. Getting a Lifeline Pilots Executive Committee (the seven most contributing directors) together is HARD. These are BUSY People. You are too....
Click to expand...

I was talking to Arnold about this as well. I'm thinking the call may be inefficient.

Maybe the web is the best way...

Thanks for the offer. If we can find a way to make the phone as easy as the web, maybe we will have another outlet for learning...but reality is that, yes, we are all very busy. :)
 
I like the idea also. I agree with Dr. Bruce though that getting a group together is going to be tough. The web seems to give us a quorum of pilots at various times to dissect these things.

I need to learn and think more about the more complex approaches that are out there. That is why I started posting an occasional approach here. That and the fact that Arnold Feldman posting over on Cloud Busters was becoming the most interesting thing on that other board until it stopped. I hope that we can regularly work approach plates here, with everyone chiming in as their schedule permits. There are a lot of good, talented, experienced people here who really know their way around IFR procedures.

Any suggestions on a next plate? I was thinking about an LDA approach of some sort, but your comment at the start of this post would suggest that a good, complex RNAV approach might be a good idea. I will go digging, probably tomorrow, to find something that we can all chew upon.

Jim G
 
RobertGerace said:
Maybe the web is the best way...
Click to expand...

Bob,

How about using Net Meeting or Webex? I'm sure Chuck could help facilitate getting people setup.

Greg
182RG
 
Greg,

Netmeeting (if it works...I've never used it) may be good for the visual side.

Webex is waaaay too expensive. We use it to train people on our software and the bills are in the hundreds for short meetings with a few people...to the thousands for long meetings with many.

Do you know if NetMeeting will work? I'd love to fire webex.
 
grattonja said:
That and the fact that Arnold Feldman posting over on Cloud Busters was becoming the most interesting thing on that other board until it stopped.
Jim G
Click to expand...

It was very sad with I made the decision to leave AOPA, and it was very sad when Arnold's IAP school shut down.

I certainly don't mean to ask Arnold or Bruce or other CFII's to work for free, either. Maybe that's why I was suggesting the phone...if I donate the time for that, and CFI's volunteer to rotate...it might not be such a burden.

Maybe what I should have done is picked an approach and posted it. That seems to be the best way...if people have time to comment...that's great. If they don't, that's great too. (That seemed to work very well before.)
 
RobertGerace said:
Do you know if NetMeeting will work?
Click to expand...

Yes, it works fine for my company both with clients on the internal network, and external clients. If you go to the NetMeeting site under Microsoft.Com, there are a wide variety of options for setup. We don't use the voice component...instead we use RainDance teleconferencing...since some of our client PCs don't have microphones/speakers.

Greg
182RG
 
RobertGerace said:
It was very sad with I made the decision to leave AOPA, and it was very sad when Arnold's IAP school shut down.

I certainly don't mean to ask Arnold or Bruce or other CFII's to work for free, either. Maybe that's why I was suggesting the phone...if I donate the time for that, and CFI's volunteer to rotate...it might not be such a burden.

Maybe what I should have done is picked an approach and posted it. That seems to be the best way...if people have time to comment...that's great. If they don't, that's great too. (That seemed to work very well before.)
Click to expand...


I didn't realize that you had left AOPA. Darned shame, but I do understand. Arnold, of course, I knew about.

I will post something tomorrow, and we can all pick at it. It is not my intention to get CFIs specifically to contribute for free. I am just throwing stuff up for all to consider, anyone who wants to chime in. Some of my best learning so far on these sites has been from watching Ben put stuff up and chip away at it. Of course, I certainly enjoy and benefit from input from people like Bruce, who has done so much of this stuff and seems to have been just about everywhere in a plane. I really enjoy reading his comments. But your analyses have been great as well, Bob. Again, you have done so much more of the instrument flying than I have that I learn something just about every time I read your posts. Heck, I learn something new from reading everyone's posts, from the newest student to the most experienced pilot.

The thread on identifying VOR/LOC frequencies has been a good study. On one of my stage checks, the CFI flipped the VOR on standby to the front, in place of the LOC. He waited until the glideslope was centered, and I did not catch the flag. When I pulled the foggles off it was frightening how far out we were and how low! I learned a valuable lesson about identifying, and looking for flags. The thread on identifying has reinforced that.

I want to see Cleared for the Approach continue to be a forum for instrument training/learning.

Jim G
 
RobertGerace said:
It was very sad with I made the decision to leave AOPA, and it was very sad when Arnold's IAP school shut down.
Click to expand...

I never meant it to be a school, I just wanted keep looking at approaches. I am willing to do the same thing again here if that is what folks want. Just send me suggested approaches and I'll get them posted with a few thoughts to start with. The great thing about this forum is the collective work that is done. I reserve the right to take care of my practice and family first, but will do all I can to contribute.
 
I find all of these discussions to be fascinating, and I always learn something. Frankly, I think the idea of a netmeeting session (for visuals) and theteleconference (for real-time voice commentary) would work great. It is, in any event, an idea worth trying.

If it works, man what a resource.

If it doesn't, well, it was worth a shot.

Thanks, Bob, for the idea.
 
Bob,

You might want to checkout www.gotomeeting.com it works nicely and might be cheaper than the other services you are familiar with..

Jon G.
 
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