ICAO airport IDs

jmaynard

jmaynard

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
1,487
Location
Fairmont, Minnesota
Display Name
Display name:
Jay Maynard
When did people start using the ICAO airport ID instead of the FAA one? Am I the only one left who types FRM instead of KFRM, for example? What are the rules about three- and four-character IDs with numbers in them? I see three-character IDs get the K added in some places and not others...

This must have happened while I was away from flying over the past 15 years, but it still feels weird.
 
Dunno when it became common but most GPSs and FMSs are fussy about entering the ICAO airport identifier. For example, Denver International Airport is KDEN while the Denver VOR is DEN. If you mistakenly enter DEN when you mean KDEN it will not be happy. It works that way with a lot of flight planning programs too so I think folks get used to thinking of the airport with the "K".
 
Maybe because of GPS with global databases? Those need the ICAO ID. Flight service still uses the FAA identifiers.
 
The FAA uses the ICAO identifiers. K identifies the continental US and in their system for shorthand sake would just drop the K and use the remaining 3 letters.

At least in the US the ICAO code is often just the IATA code with a K added in front of it. That is not true overseas where you run into an IATA code for Narita Japan as NRT but the ICAO code is RJAA.

Using just the three letter code for database is to a navaid. Maybe not a big deal if the navaid and airport share the same three digits and are located at the same airport, like the Oh'Hare VOR (ORD) and the O'Hare airport (KORD). But a big deal say for DPA and KDPA which are 5 miles away from one another.
 
Last edited:
Everskyward said:
Dunno when it became common but most GPSs and FMSs are fussy about entering the ICAO airport identifier. For example, Denver International Airport is KDEN while the Denver VOR is DEN. If you mistakenly enter DEN when you mean KDEN it will not be happy. It works that way with a lot of flight planning programs too so I think folks get used to thinking of the airport with the "K".
Click to expand...
ADDS uses the FAA IDs while WSI uses ICAO IDs. It becomes a pain in the butt at times because I get used to entering one most of the day then go to the other. It would be nice if they truly would standardize as far as IDs go.

A few other ICAO standards I could do without.

Different segments on the AOPA site also vary. At least Airnav gives you both options.
 
kinda like the time I punched FOD into the GPS and as I neared fort dodge my boss and I were scratching our heads wondering why it wouldnt let us select an approach. That K makes a big difference
 
Just don't try putting the K in front of a three character ID that includes a digit, like 1C5! The K only goes in front of ones that are all letters.
 
From FAA Publication 7350.7Y LOCATION IDENTIFIERS Effective 11/23/06 (emphases added):
1-2-7 Assignment System

a. Three-letter identifiers are assigned as radio call signs to aeronautical navigation aids; to airports with a manned air traffic control facility or navigational aid within airport boundary; to airports that receive scheduled route air carrier or military airlift service, and to airports designated by the U.S. Customs Service as Airports of Entry. Some of these identifiers are assigned to certain aviation weather reporting stations.

[...]

c. Most one-number, two-letter identifiers have been assigned to aviation weather reporting and observation stations and special-use locations. Some of these identifiers may be assigned to public-use landing facilities within the United States and its jurisdictions, which do not meet the requirements for identifiers in the three-letter series. In this identifier series, the number is always in the first position of the three-character combination.

d. Most one-letter, two-number identifiers are assigned to public-use landing facilities within the United States and its jurisdictions, which do not meet the requirements for identifiers in the three-letter series. Some of these identifiers are also assigned to aviation weather reporting stations.

1. One-letter, two-number identifiers are keyed by the alphabetical letter. The letter may appear in the first, middle or last position in the combination of three characters. When the letter signifies an Air Traffic Control Center's area, the assignment will not change if the Center's boundaries are realigned.

2. Identifiers in this series, which could conflict with the ''Victor'',''Jet'' or colored airway numbers are not assigned.

e. Two-letter, two-number identifiers are assigned to private-use landing facilities in the United States and its jurisdictions which do not meet the requirements for three-character assignments. They are keyed by the two-letter Post Office or supplemental abbreviation (listed below) of the state with which they are associated. The two letter code appears in the first two, middle, or last two positions of the four character code.

[...]

1-4-1 Use of Location Identifiers

An international location indicator is a four-letter code used in international telecommunications. The location indicator for airports in the contiguous United States is the three-letter identifier preceded by "K". For other non-contiguous United States airports, the following two letter prefix will be used:
Alaska - PA, PF, PO, PP
Hawaii - PH
Puerto Rico - TJ
Virgin Islands - TI
(See ICAO Document 7910 for listings.)
​
The above "official" word notwithstanding, there are doubtless some exceptions and anomalies.

Here's an interesting article with some of the historical background:
http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html
 
gprellwitz said:
Just don't try putting the K in front of a three character ID that includes a digit, like 1C5! The K only goes in front of ones that are all letters.
Click to expand...
Not true when using WSI for weather. Their dang system wants the K for all IDs.
 
KennyFlys said:
Not true when using WSI for weather. Their dang system wants the K for all IDs.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're right. I was thinking about the GPSes when I wrote that. I believe the statement is true for both Garmin and King.
 
I'm with you Jay. I stick with the three letter identifiers, unless I'm talking about somewhere outside the US.

Kind of like how I don't include the N every time I talk on the radio.

Jon
 
gprellwitz said:
Just don't try putting the K in front of a three character ID that includes a digit, like 1C5! The K only goes in front of ones that are all letters.
Click to expand...

That's true for most, but there are a few three letter ones that aren't the same...for example - State College, PA is SCE, but the ICAO is KUNV. There's one like that on the west coast too...in Montana or Utah maybe??? I'm can't remember which airport it is though.
 
I understand it must get confusing for you however I am used to flying simulators Which use the ICAO in every way
 
smigaldi said:
Are there any VORS with letter and number designations? I thought all had to be of the three letter variety?
Click to expand...

Check out Canada's VORs (I think its Canada). Many VORs are 2 digits, and IIRC, they have numbers too (I think).
 
Actually when LORANs came into play. I had taken quite some time away from flying when I decided back in 1995 to get my helo ticket and had never flown a plane with a LORAN or GPS. I flew to ELD without the K and thought it was strange that I ended up at the off airport VOR.

jmaynard said:
When did people start using the ICAO airport ID instead of the FAA one? Am I the only one left who types FRM instead of KFRM, for example? What are the rules about three- and four-character IDs with numbers in them? I see three-character IDs get the K added in some places and not others...

This must have happened while I was away from flying over the past 15 years, but it still feels weird.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top