I want it, I want it, I want it!!!

[mpartovi]

OKay....so I'm def. looking harder into buying a plane.

I'm looking for something I can do acro in...hopefully start competing and be able to move up in class with the plane. (sportsman and up).

Not looking for range or speed really. Passengers would be nice...but I'm looking to really get into competing...so it wont kill me if I can never take people up in my plane. I'll just rent for those occasions.

Reasonable price, operating costs, and so on...

Overall, I've been looking at the Pitts S1-S. I found this one http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprotected/cgi-bin/specsheets.pl?viewphotos.x=&specnum=36798. Of course I'm falling in love with the plane before I really know anything about what I could be getting myself into.

I plan on financing as much as I can....insurance is gonna be a b**ch.

Any opinions, operating costs, advice would be appreciated!!!!

 

[Ken Ibold]

Overall, I've been looking at the Pitts S1-S. I found this one http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprotected/cgi-bin/specsheets.pl?viewphotos.x=&specnum=36798. Of course I'm falling in love with the plane before I really know anything about what I could be getting myself into.

Because most S-1Ss are experimental, you have a very mixed bag, here. You want to stay away from older, low time models because odds are they haven't flown because they're just not right and fly poorly. Weight is everything. Look for light as opposed to heavy. Any engine time higher than 800 is suspect on the S's, because they have fixed props and routinely operate at 3100-3300 rpm. Check what kinds of mods have been made. Some of these guys think they can improve on Curtis; many are wrong. See if the wings are real S wings or if the airplane is really an S-1C fitted with Sparcraft wings. Not really worse, just heavier. Consider the tailwheel. Many have a locking Haigh, which is good when you're first making friends with the airplane but leave you out of steering options if you lose a brake on landing. Some of the airplanes out there have a battery and starter, but no other electrical systems. So you're stuck with a handheld and no transponder, and you have to charge the battery when it's on the ground. GET A GOOD PITTS CHECKOUT BEFORE YOU TRY TO FLY IT.

 

[Henning]

OKay....so I'm def. looking harder into buying a plane.

I'm looking for something I can do acro in...hopefully start competing and be able to move up in class with the plane. (sportsman and up).

Not looking for range or speed really. Passengers would be nice...but I'm looking to really get into competing...so it wont kill me if I can never take people up in my plane. I'll just rent for those occasions.

Reasonable price, operating costs, and so on...

Overall, I've been looking at the Pitts S1-S. I found this one http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprotected/cgi-bin/specsheets.pl?viewphotos.x=&specnum=36798. Of course I'm falling in love with the plane before I really know anything about what I could be getting myself into.

I plan on financing as much as I can....insurance is gonna be a b**ch.

Any opinions, operating costs, advice would be appreciated!!!!

Uhhhh.... how much tailwheel time you have? All the Pitts are pretty short coupled little buggers and ground loops are not an aerobatic manuver, yet these planes excell in them. There are quite a few good single seat experimental aerobats around, however to start in, you may want to have 2 seats so you can get some training. A Cap 10 may serve you well for a starter plane, then when you have some experience, you can sell it and get a single seater. I used to fly my buddies S2B and thought it was pretty dang ultimate till he sold it and bought an Extra 300, that was another step. For competing and show the advantage goes to the single wing clean airframe because it can carry its energy further. HP is another issue as well. If you fly hard, be ready to do some serious maintenance. High gyroscopic loading is tough on everything as is high G loading. My preflights on aerobatic planes is even more serious than Ag planes.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

For costs low enough that I've known some pilots to bet "with the insurance underwriters" that they're not gonna have an accident and go bareback: Single seat Bradley Aerobat and/or dual seat Cessna Aerobat

 

[Missa]

Ok, so no one has mentioned a Citabra. Is that because it's not a good compition plane and is only good for recreational arobatics?

Missa

 

[Bill]

Ok, so no one has mentioned a Citabra. Is that because it's not a good compition plane and is only good for recreational arobatics?

Some reasons:

1. Most Citabrias do not have inverted oil/fuel systems.
2. The airfoil on the Citabria is asymmetrical, not the symmetrical foils found on aircraft designed for inverted flight. Therefore, it is not very good at inverted flight.
3. The long wings can be damaged by some maneuvers (ie, violent ones like snaps). The Decathalon is in the same boat, some say it is not suited for abrupt competition style aerobatics as well.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Some reasons:

1. Most Citabrias do not have inverted oil/fuel systems.
2. The airfoil on the Citabria is asymmetrical, not the symmetrical foils found on aircraft designed for inverted flight. Therefore, it is not very good at inverted flight.
3. The long wings can be damaged by some maneuvers (ie, violent ones like snaps). The Decathalon is in the same boat, some say it is not suited for abrupt competition style aerobatics as well.

I don't disagree with any of this (well, one exception), but the IAC has been worried about category creep for some time, and this year the Sportsman sequence is flyable -- and maybe even winnable -- by a Citabria or clip wing Cub or Stearman.

My slight quibble is that the first point is inaccurate for a small number of Citabrias. If you include the 7KCAB (478 of 'em still registered), then you have inverted fuel and oil.

 

[mpartovi]

I think its time to start playin the lotto...I dont make nearly enough to buy and "operate" a plane. Maybe a partnership? ugh...but then that just adds some headache to the scene.

AHHHHHHHH...I just want a plane!!!

oh wait...i forgot...im supposed to win the AOPA sweepstakes...ha...silly me!

 

[Bill]

My slight quibble is that the first point is inaccurate for a small number of Citabrias. If you include the 7KCAB (478 of 'em still registered), then you have inverted fuel and oil.

Right, I said MOST Citabrias don't have inverted systems. Even so, the 7KCAB's still have the asymmetrical wing, right?

 

[Ken Ibold]

Right, I said MOST Citabrias don't have inverted systems. Even so, the 7KCAB's still have the asymmetrical wing, right?

You're right. I should learn to read.

And yes, the 7KCABs have asymmetrical wings. The wing change is the primary difference between the 7KCAB and the 8KCAB.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Therefore, it is not very good at inverted flight

Watching a Citabria in inverted flight will remind you imediately of the Monty Python skit regarding ovine aviation:

"They don't fly so much as they plummet."

 

[gismo]

I think its time to start playin the lotto...I dont make nearly enough to buy and "operate" a plane. Maybe a partnership? ugh...but then that just adds some headache to the scene.

With the right partner(s), group ownership of an acro bird actually offers benefits beyond shared cost. Since you wouldn't normally use such a plane for long trips (other than to competitions etc) it's easy to share timewise and having a partner or two to pitch in on the inevitable maintenance can be much appreciated. And if you're real lucky (or persuasive) you might end up with a partner who can teach you how to fly the plane and the maneuvers.

I also strongly suggest you start with a two seater. Teaching yourself aerobatics is neither safe nor effecient and the ability to take a fellow pilot or friend for a "ride" is a great benefit as well. On top of that if your partner is interested in competition, you can fly together to the meets, cutting your cost there as well.