I thought I'd Heard Everything,

It's all a fine line, you could also cut all the food out of your diet and and live off of Soylent and water from a public drinking fountain for only $29 a month, it's all you NEED, but who just settles for need, I do enjoy my craft beers and bison steaks and fast cars myself.

Enjoying what little life we as humans have is quite important.

IMO as long as your not living a "rent to own" lifestyle, or hurting anyone else, enjoy life man! No one makes it out alive ;)
 
Once saw a sing that read:

"Our credit manager is Helen Wait.
If you need credit go to Helen Wait".
 
Norman said:
Once saw a sing that read:

"Our credit manager is Helen Wait.
If you need credit go to Helen Wait".
Click to expand...

My grandfather had that sign in his bar in New Jersey.

If the guy is saying that Ramsey said "don't pay your bills" then he isn't hearing it right. Ramsey is huge on personal responsibility and if you owe money then you owe money.
 
Craig said:
The ONLY time Dave says anything about not paying bills, is when you are so deep in debt, and you have already defaulted on all your cards and loans and are being sued. He then says put a roof over your head, food on the table and keep the lights and water on. Once you do that, anything left over goes to the overdue bills.
Click to expand...

You (not you personally...) need a book to tell you that ?

Guess I need to start writing books for stupid people...
 
jaybee said:
You (not you personally...) need a book to tell you that ?
Guess I need to start writing books for stupid people...
Click to expand...

Some people do.

Using numbers pulled from the Federal Reserve, U.S. Census Bureau and Internal Revenue Service, the Statistic Brain website found that the average American family had $3,800 in its savings account and $35,000 saved for retirement as of July 2014. That savings account figure falls well short of the six months of savings recommended by financial experts. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average American household spent $51,000 annually in 2013. That's $4,258.33 each month, meaning the average household needs $25,550 in savings to cover six months worth of expenses as recommended by experts.

The average debt among all American households was $117,951 as of 2012, according to the StatisticsBrain website, which cited data from the U.S. Census Bureau, Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Service. However, this number climbs when you look at the average debt among only households currently carrying debt.

Mortgage debt is by far the largest source of household debt in the United States. According to NerdWallet.com, American households who owe money on their mortgages owe an average of $154,365 as of 2014. Student loans account for another large source of debt. Households that carry student loan debt carry an average of $33,607 each. The average American family that owes money to credit card companies carries an average credit card debt burden of $15,191 as of 2014.
 
EdFred said:
...Student loans account for another large source of debt. Households that carry student loan debt carry an average of $33,607 each. The average American family that owes money to credit card companies carries an average credit card debt burden of $15,191 as of 2014.
Click to expand...

I noticed a while back in the flying periodicals there are numerous adverts from credit lenders for loans to student pilots. There's even an ad posted on our Club bulletin board. Sign of the times. Unfortunately, like everywhere else where credit expands and spreads, the cost of the goods or service start heading skyward. House prices, college tuitions, whatever.
 
Life Expectancy on average in the US is (on average) 78 years. A lot of these people who don't save, spend poorly, make bad diet and life decisions will be dead long before that age. Not only that, they'll leave nothing behind for their families. It's a SAD state of affairs, but it's a perfect example of a nation of consumers vs. producers. We don't DO anything in this country anymore, we just consume, get fat and die poor.

People here are just programmed to live beyond their means. Cheap acquisition costs give people instant gratification for getting the latest "thing" with no emphasis placed on long term costs (which is where you get nailed).

<sarcasm mode=on>
Need a house? No money down!
Need an iPhone? $200 for a $1000 phone, what a deal!!
Want a plane? You can get one for $20K, they are cheap.
</sarcasm>

I personally am no stranger to these siren calls of "deals" but I am still saving, still contributing to my retirement. It does amaze me to find out how little people are saving and yet how far they are in debt. In the next 20-30 years when the boomers are long gone it's gonna be a wake-up call for the US.
 
Caramon13 said:
Life Expectancy on average in the US is (on average) 78 years. A lot of these people who don't save, spend poorly, make bad diet and life decisions will be dead long before that age. Not only that, they'll leave nothing behind for their families. It's a SAD state of affairs, but it's a perfect example of a nation of consumers vs. producers. We don't DO anything in this country anymore, we just consume, get fat and die poor.

People here are just programmed to live beyond their means. Cheap acquisition costs give people instant gratification for getting the latest "thing" with no emphasis placed on long term costs (which is where you get nailed).

<sarcasm mode=on>
Need a house? No money down!
Need an iPhone? $200 for a $1000 phone, what a deal!!
Want a plane? You can get one for $20K, they are cheap.
</sarcasm>

I personally am no stranger to these siren calls of "deals" but I am still saving, still contributing to my retirement. It does amaze me to find out how little people are saving and yet how far they are in debt. In the next 20-30 years when the boomers are long gone it's gonna be a wake-up call for the US.
Click to expand...

You're clumping a lot of unrelated stuff together.

For one, I've seen many a walmart diet hood rat love far longer then some rich vegan,

Second yeah having a ton of debt isn't good, agreed, probably not healthy knowing if you leave your crap job the bank is going to repo your rent to own lifestyle and most everything you own. This is more true with many of the overly specialized type jobs we see now days.

However you can get a nice plane for 20k, something like a Grumman AA1, a chief, etc, ain't going to be a complex 6 seater, but not everyone needs or even wants a 6 figure plane like that.

As for your America bashing, dude it's like that in most countries, I used to buy into the proclaimed American guilt trip that you see with most suburban white folks, after traveling it just isn't really true, I've seen lard ass broke euro trash, seen well to do and very educated folks in Africa, seen very fit and well put together people in the south and so on. Infact on one instance I came across a dude with a huge beer gut, wearing a American flag tshirt, shorts and a fanny pack, being annoying as all heck at a temple in Thailand, thinking to my self that this is what I always heard the world views Americans as I got a little closer to investigate, the dude was from Europe...
 
@James331 there are always exceptions to the rule..ANYWHERE. On the whole, as a nation, I'd consider us below average.

Do we have things going for us? Yep. I am not bashing America, but on average we have some of the poorest performing humans in the world living right here. Truly, a country for the common person.
 
Caramon13 said:
...It's a SAD state of affairs, but it's a perfect example of a nation of consumers vs. producers. We don't DO anything in this country anymore, we just consume, get fat and die poor.

...
Click to expand...

Not to be deliberately provocative, but what is the purpose of producing something unless someone intends to consume it? In the old Soviet Union they used to have shoe production quotas. Didn't matter if anybody actually wanted to buy or use those shoes, making the production quota was the objective. In the early days of the European Common Market they had agricultural quotas. Same result, "lakes of milk and mountains of butter". My point is without a "consumer" there's no point in producing something.

As for the USA not producing anything any more, that is a popular misconception. The USA is the only large economy in the world that is not highly dependent on imports or exports, despite what the politicians and the media would have us believe. Most of what is consumed in the USA is made in the USA.
 
James331 said:
...As for your America bashing, dude it's like that in most countries, I used to buy into the proclaimed American guilt trip that you see with most suburban white folks, after traveling it just isn't really true, I've seen lard ass broke euro trash, seen well to do and very educated folks in Africa, seen very fit and well put together people in the south and so on. Infact on one instance I came across a dude with a huge beer gut, wearing a American flag tshirt, shorts and a fanny pack, being annoying as all heck at a temple in Thailand, thinking to my self that this is what I always heard the world views Americans as I got a little closer to investigate, the dude was from Europe...
Click to expand...

Long ago the Germans took over the title from Americans as the tourists from hell.
 
Yet most in the world would give their right arm to be able to live and work here.

I've traveled and lived abroad, there are issues here, different issues there, it's all a mix, however we still enjoy a good mix of freedom and opportunity, a vast landscape from article tundra to deserts to beaches and everything in between.

The poorest performing people? We have some deadbeats just as every country, we also have people who are pioneering the cutting edge of science, most all music and major movies come from the US as well, god knows how many iconic items are also designed here

As far as common people, we are all common people, we are merely a bag of flesh bone and cartilage tooling away at our brief time we have, where is the land of these gods you hint at?

And for living past 78, frankly I've seen some very old people, Infact most folks in my family live a really long time, that said I really don't want to live to be super old, those people aren't really living as much as existing, if having some drinks, eating good food, taking risks and taking life by the balls is going to trim a decade off of my life, so be it. We are not delicate collectors items to be put under glass and on the top shelf and coddled, we are tools used to experience life.
 
Caramon13 said:
@James331 there are always exceptions to the rule..ANYWHERE. On the whole, as a nation, I'd consider us below average.

Do we have things going for us? Yep. I am not bashing America, but on average we have some of the poorest performing humans in the world living right here. Truly, a country for the common person.
Click to expand...

You also have some of the highest performing humans in the world.

For all the bashing of America that goes on in the media it's difficult not to notice that its still the most innovative economy in the world, and equally difficult not to notice that there are a lot more Chinese, Russians and others trying to get residence in the USA than the other way around. :cool:

Must have something going for it...
 
GRG55 said:
Not to be deliberately provocative, but what is the purpose of producing something unless someone intends to consume it? In the old Soviet Union they used to have shoe production quotas. Didn't matter if anybody actually wanted to buy or use those shoes, making the production quota was the objective. In the early days of the European Common Market they had agricultural quotas. Same result, "lakes of milk and mountains of butter". My point is without a "consumer" there's no point in producing something.

As for the USA not producing anything any more, that is a popular misconception. The USA is the only large economy in the world that is not highly dependent on imports or exports, despite what the politicians and the media would have us believe. Most of what is consumed in the USA is made in the USA.
Click to expand...

Heh, tell that to anyone who drives a car. Or owns a phone, or watches TV, or does anything the average American does. Just look at the back of pretty much anything you use on a regular basis and tell me, how many of those things say "Made in the USA"? And even if they do, what percentage of those do you think we actually ENTIRELY made in the USA? Very..very..few.

Not "highly" dependent, maybe, but we're MOSTLY dependent on imports and exports. And that also includes labor, but that's a WHOLE other conversation.

There is no point to produce anything that isn't consumed, I don't think I implied that in my post. But I agree with you there.
 
James331 said:
Yet most in the world would give their right arm to be able to live and work here.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm sure that's true.

James331 said:
I've traveled and lived abroad, there are issues here, different issues there, it's all a mix, however we still enjoy a good mix of freedom and opportunity, a vast landscape from article tundra to deserts to beaches and everything in between.

The poorest performing people? We have some deadbeats just as every country, we also have people who are pioneering the cutting edge of science, most all music and major movies come from the US as well, god knows how many iconic items are also designed here

As far as common people, we are all common people, we are merely a bag of flesh bone and cartilage tooling away at our brief time we have, where is the land of these gods you hint at?
Click to expand...

I'm not hinting that any nation is a "land of gods", but let's just take education. Right? Simple. Smart people help do great things, innovate, cure diseases, etc. We're not in the top 10. Not in the top 15.

What about healthcare? Taking care of people? Nope..we suck there too. Not even in the top 30 nations.

But hey, we're number one with a bullet (pun intended) for military spending.
We're in the top 10 for drug use.
Number one for debt (14 trillion or so)


James331 said:
And for living past 78, frankly I've seen some very old people, Infact most folks in my family live a really long time, that said I really don't want to live to be super old, those people aren't really living as much as existing, if having some drinks, eating good food, taking risks and taking life by the balls is going to trim a decade off of my life, so be it. We are not delicate collectors items to be put under glass and on the top shelf and coddled, we are tools used to experience life.
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree with that.

And honestly if @James331 or @GRG55 want to keep debating, I'm game :). Start a conversation with me or somethin..I didn't mean to derail the OP's original train of thought. Things are taking a political/national spin heh
 
Caramon13 said:
...Not "highly" dependent, maybe, but we're MOSTLY dependent on imports and exports. And that also includes labor, but that's a WHOLE other conversation.

There is no point to produce anything that isn't consumed, I don't think I implied that in my post. But I agree with you there.
Click to expand...

We all have our belief systems. Changing them is difficult.

However, if you actually look at the hard data you will find your perception is incorrect.

And btw both of my pickup trucks and my airplane were made in the USA, just for starters.
 
GRG55 said:
We all have our belief systems. Changing them is difficult.

However, if you actually look at the hard data you will find your perception is incorrect.

And btw both of my pickup trucks and my airplane were made in the USA, just for starters.
Click to expand...

How about all the electronics for those pickup trucks?

You're both right. Lots of "stuff" made here. Often from parts made elsewhere and not available here.

(Most of the big electronics fabs closed down here over a decade ago.)

If you had to build that pickup truck from parts all made in US, you'd have to redesign it completely and you wouldn't be able to afford the truck.
 
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