I think, maybe, I may want a COZY

OtisAir

OtisAir

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OtisAir
I think I may want to look at a already-built COZY in the next year or so. The performance looks great, the roominess looks good, and the price isn't over the top.

I wouldn't fly a darn thing I built so it would have to be something some other skilled fella / fellowette built and tested.
 
how long is the runway where you live? I think i read an article on the web somewhere about a guy who flew across the country in a day in a Cozy. San Diego to Kitty Hawk I think.
 
HOLY COW

Are these numbers realistic??

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Take-off solo/gross [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1200/1700 ft.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Climb solo/gross [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2000/1200 fpm[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cruise 75% 8000 ft. [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]220 mph[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cruise 40% 12000 ft. [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]185 mph[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Max. range 75% [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1000 mi[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Max. range 40% [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1300 mi.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ceiling [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20,000+ ft.[/FONT]​
 
And with a 1,000 lb useful load, no less! Either Cessna, Beech and Piper have been asleep at the switch for the last 50 years, or this is just another homebuilt with pie-in-the-sky specs. My guess is the latter...

Might be a great plane, either way, though.


Trapper John
 
tonycondon said:
how long is the runway where you live? I think i read an article on the web somewhere about a guy who flew across the country in a day in a Cozy. San Diego to Kitty Hawk I think.
Click to expand...

Shane flys out of Wings 3750' x 75
 
Trapper John said:
And with a 1,000 lb useful load, no less! Either Cessna, Beech and Piper have been asleep at the switch for the last 50 years, or this is just another homebuilt with pie-in-the-sky specs. My guess is the latter...

Might be a great plane, either way, though.


Trapper John
Click to expand...

The numbers are quite real. For comparison look at the Cessna Corvallis 400
 
I have flown in one and it is COZY, most uncomfortable plane I have ever been in, but they are fast and easy on fuel. Maybe if I was 20 years younger I would like it, its more of a "young mans airplane". I could see Jesse in one.
 
jtheune said:
The numbers are quite real. For comparison look at the Cessna Corvallis 400
Click to expand...

Heh, it takes the Corvallis 400 a 310 HP engine to do what the Cozy does with an O-360. What does that tell you?


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Heh, it takes the Corvallis 400 a 310 HP engine to do what the Cozy does with an O-360. What does that tell you?


Trapper John
Click to expand...

The Corvallis can carry 4 in air conditioned leather interior comfort, with Keyless entry?
 
tonycondon said:
The Corvallis can carry 4 in air conditioned leather interior comfort, with Keyless entry?
Click to expand...

Rich, Corinthian leather, probably!

I guess you must sit on lawn chair webbing in a Cozy, what else would explain the 1,350 lb empty weight difference?


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Rich, Corinthian leather, probably!

I guess you must sit on lawn chair webbing in a Cozy, what else would explain the 1,350 lb empty weight difference?


Trapper John
Click to expand...

an extra 2 seats, completely different designs, certification, bigger engine...
 
tonycondon said:
an extra 2 seats, completely different designs, certification, bigger engine...
Click to expand...

Hey, you don't have to explain it to me, it was jtheune trying to make the comparison! :smilewinkgrin:

I'm just suspicious of a homebuilt that claims to have a 1,000 lb useful load and cruise at 190 kt on less than 100 sq. ft. of wing with a 180 HP engine, that's all.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Hey, you don't have to explain it to me, it was jtheune trying to make the comparison! :smilewinkgrin:

I'm just suspicious of a homebuilt that claims to have a 1,000 lb useful load and cruise at 190 kt on less than 100 sq. ft. of wing with a 180 HP engine, that's all.


Trapper John
Click to expand...

Maybe it uses "go-grease" like the Howard DGA planes from the '30s.:D

John
 
for some reason i thought the Cozy was a tandem 2 seater, a lot like many other canard homebuilts.
 
There was a Cozy company dude at Osh last year with a model available to climb in. We didn't get in though but it does look fun & fast & capable. I'm just starting to research the Cozy's to see if they work as advertized.
 
I have one partially completed.. The tub is on the main gear with wheels and tires, the Canard is completed and ready to mount with the Roncz modified airfoil that solves the rain issue... The fiberglass and foam for the wing in on hand... Worksmanship is professional level... The manual/plan is registered and the work is carefully notated...
I am getting ready to retire - which means living on a boat in warmer climates... Will sell at a fair price (materials) rather than let it sit in the shop until I kick the bucket...

anyone interested can PM me at ad4hk2004 at yahoo.com

denny-o
 
The numbers are pretty realistic. They are a very efficient airframe. You really can't try and compare most of this super-efficient experimental stuff to a Cessna or Piper. They are a radically different design.

I've heard that there were some issues on the originals with them being very sensitive to heavy precipitation. They would of course be very sensitive to ice. They aren't a good short-field airplane.

Still, they are very cool. Personally -- I would still prefer to own a RV of some sort.
 
Oh, and let me comment on the 'works as advertised' issue... Yes they do... Where they have an advantage is in efficiency... All wing surfaces are lifting as opposed to the common plan form...
What happens in any aircraft is the airframe wants to tuck forward and dive - because the CG is ahead of the CL... What rotates the nose up on a conventional planform is that the horizontal stabilizer is pushing down on the tail... This downwards force (weight) on the tail is adding the total load that the main wing must carry... In the canard planform that tuck and dive is countered by the canard lifting the nose - not pushing down... Thus the canard is not loading the main wing... Now, there are all sorts of trade offs between lift and drag here, but in the end the canard is a more efficient planform...

Next, is the pusher prop... As opposed to a tractor prop blowing against the airframe and trying to blow it backwards at the sime time it is trying to pull it forward, the pusher is much more efficient...

Then there is streamlining of the wing/body interface that is better on the Cozy, etc.. In the end it winds up more efficient... Now canards have their own limitatins, no spins, cannot pitch up as much as a conventional planform... But for hteir mission, move bodies fast and efficiently across country, the canard hasw advantages...

denny-o
 
i notice they don't advertize the stall speed. any idea what that would be denny?

canard can have advantages, as long as the downwash off the front wing doesn't interfere too much with the main wing.
 
tonycondon said:
i notice they don't advertize the stall speed.
Click to expand...

The standard answer is, "Hey, it's a canard, it can't stall!" But they won't usually go on to explain the freefalling brick rate of descent...
canard can have advantages, as long as the downwash off the front wing doesn't interfere too much with the main wing.
Click to expand...

Enough to make up for the loss of efficiency from the pusher prop?


Trapper John
 
This is somewhat interesting

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Max. front seat [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 400 lbs.[/FONT]​
 
Good Bit of INFO Here.

cozy4_2m.jpg
 
Trapper John said:
The standard answer is, "Hey, it's a canard, it can't stall!" But they won't usually go on to explain the freefalling brick rate of descent...


Enough to make up for the loss of efficiency from the pusher prop?


Trapper John
Click to expand...

i can't really speak to how much efficiency is gained by the pusher prop. However, if say the canard is set up so that it has such incredible downwash that the inboard portion of the main wing is operating at a negative angle of attack, then that definitely negates the gain in efficiency from eliminating the down-loaded aft tail. I don't know how many canard airplanes exhibit this behavior, but I know at least one that does (or did)
 
ah - found it. 'Minimum Speed' listed on that website is 64mph.

and at the beginning of this thread i had the Quickie in mind, not the Cozy.
 
EppyGA said:
This is somewhat interesting

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Max. front seat [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]400 lbs.[/FONT]​
Click to expand...
Tells you something about the maximum moment the canard's lift can generate about the CG, I suppose.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Tells you something about the maximum moment the canard's lift can generate about the CG, I suppose.


Trapper John
Click to expand...

I don't think my wife would take to riding in the back seat. Guess I'd have to tell her to lose some weight. :D
 
tonycondon said:
i can't really speak to how much efficiency is gained by the pusher prop.
Click to expand...

I've read lately that pusher props tend to be a losing deal compared to a tractor setup. Efficieny losses from disturbed airflow, among other things.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
What do you suppose that means? Minimum speed that the canard has enough authority to lower the AoA?


Trapper John
Click to expand...

i would guess that means that if you go any slower the canard will stall and the airplane will speed up.

but i've never flown a canard airplane.
 
tonycondon said:
i would guess that means that if you go any slower the canard will stall and the airplane will speed up.
Click to expand...

Canard stalls, nose drops, plane speeds up, I guess. As long as the canard stalls before the wing, which I suppose they are designed to do.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
Canard stalls, nose drops, plane speeds up, I guess. As long as the canard stalls before the wing, which I suppose they are designed to do.


Trapper John
Click to expand...

yea thats supposed to be a safety feature. can't stall them, just like an ercoupe. interestingly, most canard airplanes, and the ercoupe to a certain extent, are kinda runway hogs.
 
Trapper John said:
I've read lately that pusher props tend to be a losing deal compared to a tractor setup. Efficieny losses from disturbed airflow, among other things.


Trapper John
Click to expand...

On the plus side, having the prop sucking air across the aft fuse keeps the air attached and reduces turbulent drag.

IMO, the real downside is that you FOD a lot of props because of stuff kicked up by the gear and the occasional nut, bolt, or screwdriver left loose under the cowl. Since you can't use a metal prop, the wood/composite jobs take a beating.

The other downside to the Cozy is that it is truly Cozy. The designer and his wife were both under 5'8, and the airplane really doesn't fit big people very well. That goes for the front and back seats. Also, if you're looking for baggage space, keep looking. When you find it, let me know.

I look at the Cozy as a very efficient cross country airplane for either 2 or 3 relatively small people.
 
There was a Cozy near the entrance at Oshkosh last year. IIRC, the builder/owner/pilot flew it from his home base in Israel to Oshkosh.

Looking at the front seat of the Cozy made the Sonex front seat look like an RV-10. I'm pretty sure that IF I could fit in the front seat, the only person they could put next to me would be a small child, who would probably suffocate sometime during flight. The nice thing is that since it is totally plans built, guys are doing a lot of mods like widening the fuselage, modifying the strakes, and raising the canopy to get more room. The downside is many of these mods cost speed.

If I were to build one I would copy Chris Esselstyn's Cozy540RG. It is a Cozy that has been lengthened by 1 foot (and IIRC widened), powered by a lycoming IO-540, with Velocity retracts. He can get 210 knots cruise on 10 gph at about 8,000-10,000 ft. Top speed is over 240 knots.
 
I don't know if I would call 80K cheap....but the Cozy is a hell of a plane!
 
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