I think I want my PPL, please help me!

P.S.

My fiance is great and supports me no matter how crazy the idea may seem. The one concern she has is the safety of small airplanes. Does anyone have any information handy on the subject from maybe when they had to convince their family members?

More statistics than you can shake a stick at: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/nall.html

On average, light aircraft are about as risky as riding a motorcycle. Many, many accidents happen because a pilot did something stupid. Don't be stupid and your odds improve significantly.
 
P.S.

My fiance is great and supports me no matter how crazy the idea may seem. The one concern she has is the safety of small airplanes. Does anyone have any information handy on the subject from maybe when they had to convince their family members?

Well, remember, most accidents in cars result from hitting other cars. Most accidents in planes result from screwing up and doing something wrong.

Don't do anything wrong, and you're fine :)

Truthfully, I remember someone once posted a statistic that showed that GA planes had a safety record about on par with riding a motorcycle in full protective gear - that is to say, slightly more chance of incident than a car, but not much more.
 
For any new pilot that is interested in significantly improving their odds, I would STRONGLY recommend a book entitled "The Killing Zone." Get a copy and read it! You won't be sorry.

Kim, Have you read your copy yet?:nono:
 
Last edited:
For any new pilot that is interested in significantly improving their odds, I would STRONGLY recommend a book entitled "The Killing Zone." Get a copy and read it! You won't be sorry.

Kim, Have you read your copy yet?:nono:

Good book, and my copy is out there somewhere in the PoA "library.". Not sure who has it right now, but maybe they're done with it?
 
I have never sat with someone near the end of their life who said, 'I am glad I never learned to fly and waste all that money.'

As one who can see that far off horizon now closer and rushing toward me let me point out from personal knowledge that all of this is a one way trip... It may seem like it will go forever to you, but it won't... I am not suggesting that you just drop out and go lie on the beach at Ipenema - you probably won't like yourself in the end if you do... But from long personal and professional experience let me suggest that if there is something you really, really want to do SOMEDAY, if you push 'someday' too far off that far horizon might beat you to it... When we cross that horizon, all of us, we take only what is in our mind, our memory, our experiences - our soul if you will...
Those expensive things we gave up everything else to own, don't go with us...

denny-o
 
I have never sat with someone near the end of their life who said, 'I am glad I never learned to fly and waste all that money.'

As one who can see that far off horizon now closer and rushing toward me let me point out from personal knowledge that all of this is a one way trip... It may seem like it will go forever to you, but it won't... I am not suggesting that you just drop out and go lie on the beach at Ipenema - you probably won't like yourself in the end if you do... But from long personal and professional experience let me suggest that if there is something you really, really want to do SOMEDAY, if you push 'someday' too far off that far horizon might beat you to it... When we cross that horizon, all of us, we take only what is in our mind, our memory, our experiences - our soul if you will...
Those expensive things we gave up everything else to own, don't go with us...

denny-o


This is VERY true! I started flying at 41 and ended up putting it on hold. I picked up again at 61 and finished. I am VERY lucky that I lived that much longer and even luckier that my health is still good enough to get a medical. I know LOTS of people younger than myself that can NOT get a medical.

If it's something you really want to do, make it happen.

Life is a train trip. You can sit on the train and stare at the seat in front of you until reaching the final destination OR you can look out the window and enjoy the beautiful countryside as you pass by. I learned this late in life, but luckily not TOO late.
 
For any new pilot that is interested in significantly improving their odds, I would STRONGLY recommend a book entitled "The Killing Zone." Get a copy and read it! You won't be sorry.

Kim, Have you read your copy yet?:nono:

Um......... no comment? I wish I had more free time. I do like my special inscription though.
 
I have never sat with someone near the end of their life who said, 'I am glad I never learned to fly and waste all that money.'

As one who can see that far off horizon now closer and rushing toward me let me point out from personal knowledge that all of this is a one way trip... It may seem like it will go forever to you, but it won't... I am not suggesting that you just drop out and go lie on the beach at Ipenema - you probably won't like yourself in the end if you do... But from long personal and professional experience let me suggest that if there is something you really, really want to do SOMEDAY, if you push 'someday' too far off that far horizon might beat you to it... When we cross that horizon, all of us, we take only what is in our mind, our memory, our experiences - our soul if you will...
Those expensive things we gave up everything else to own, don't go with us...

denny-o

I like this a lot! This is deifnately how I see life as well.
 
Well I spoke to the head honcho of a local flight club today, and we set up a introductory flight for Wednesday evening ($75). He gave me multiple reasons why I should learn through a club and not a school (cheaper, better instruction), and we briefly talked numbers. He says I would be looking at renting a Cessna 172 for $120/ hr and paying $50/ hr for instruction and an additional $500 on supplies. He also said if I go 2-3 times a week I could get it done in about four months, and at around $7500. This seems pretty low to me. He also said most students take around 55 hours to complete. Overall he said I would be spending about $1750 a month...not sure if that includes the monthly dues of the club as well, but what’s another $30 in the grand scheme of things?

I guess my plan is to take the introductory flight, and if I still want to pursue this afterwards I can grab some business cards of the other members to decide who my instructor should be if I decide not to have this guy teach me.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

On a side note, I spent my lunch break on YouTube watching other folks introductory flights and I couldn’t help but get sweaty palms.
 
For what its worth (FWIW)

Instructors have different personalities and methods. You can start with one that you've been referred or assigned to. Just keep in mind that just because someone told you a person is a great instructor, it doesn't necessarily mean, after spending a few hours with them, you'll agree.

If you don't have good rapport with your instructor, meaning, simply, you like him/her and vise versa. You will not progress as quickly as you might otherwise.

That means more time and money in the long run. There are plenty of outstanding instructors out there so don't settle. A good one is you "Ace-In-The-Hole" (so to speak). Sometimes you're lucky and get a great one from the beginning. Other times you may need to switch. Don't be timid about it. Its your cash.

Good Luck:blueplane:
 
Have fun, no sweaty palms, it is a "fun" flight and more of a way to see what flying is about. However, you said "evening" - does this mean your first flight is a night flight? Day flying is much different than night flying.
 
Have fun, no sweaty palms, it is a "fun" flight and more of a way to see what flying is about. However, you said "evening" - does this mean your first flight is a night flight? Day flying is much different than night flying.

I am meeting him at 4:30 so it should be about twilight...should be beautiful!
 
Let's see, if my navigation is correct, you trained at KTEB. That's where I did my training:). Started in '98 and got my wings in '99. I went to Million Air flight school. Don't think they're there anymore, maybe the FBO but not the flight school
I started- and finished- at Teterboro, but the commute I described is to Lincoln Park (N07). The train/bus thing to KTEB is similar, but at the time I was fliyng out of KTEB I was training with the school on the east side (in the FAA building...all long gone). That place was about 1/3 down the driveway between RT 46 and the tower; an easy walk. Shorter bus ride, too.
I could have kept flying out of KTEB (the school at 47N was a satellite of the one at KTEB ) , but it was cheaper overall at N07, and I spent more Hobbs time learning and flying- not taxiing for miles, waiting for jets or trying to stay out of their way, LOL. I even got some free dual time riding along with CFIs on repositioning flights between the two fields- not much, but it was free. :)

You started the year after I finished... the school at N07 folded before I was done, so I finished up at KTEB. And I think that school was gone before you arrived there, which left Million Air as the only option. Pretty sure they don't do instruction anymore either... passing by occasionally, I haven't seen a piston-powered aircraft there in a long time. :(
 
I started- and finished- at Teterboro, but the commute I described is to Lincoln Park (N07). The train/bus thing to KTEB is similar, but at the time I was fliyng out of KTEB I was training with the school on the east side (in the FAA building...all long gone). That place was about 1/3 down the driveway between RT 46 and the tower; an easy walk. Shorter bus ride, too.
I could have kept flying out of KTEB (the school at 47N was a satellite of the one at KTEB ) , but it was cheaper overall at N07, and I spent more Hobbs time learning and flying- not taxiing for miles, waiting for jets or trying to stay out of their way, LOL. I even got some free dual time riding along with CFIs on repositioning flights between the two fields- not much, but it was free. :)

You started the year after I finished... the school at N07 folded before I was done, so I finished up at KTEB. And I think that school was gone before you arrived there, which left Million Air as the only option. Pretty sure they don't do instruction anymore either... passing by occasionally, I haven't seen a piston-powered aircraft there in a long time. :(

Yes I've been to Lincoln Park a couple of times. Not sure why I chose KTEB, I think it had a lot to do with my ATC friend who worked the tower back then. The long taxi and jets really were annoying. My friend used to get me in ahead of the jets whenever he could, really saved on the Hobbs time..lol. I really liked KTEB overall and I think it was a better learning experience flying out of a Class D airport that sits beneath NY Class B!

Yeah I visited the school you're talking about at KTEB, it was where I got my first intro flight. I think they folded shortly after I started at Million Air (which was referred to me by my ATC friend)
 
P.S. My fiance is great and supports me no matter how crazy the idea may seem.

She sounds like a keeper to me, My wife supports my crazy endeavor of flying as well. We have been together for 8 years. If I told my wife today that I was going sky diving she would probably say: "I want to go too" That is how I know I picked the right woman.
 
More statistics than you can shake a stick at: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/nall.html

On average, light aircraft are about as risky as riding a motorcycle. Many, many accidents happen because a pilot did something stupid. Don't be stupid and your odds improve significantly.

[Stupid rookie questions..proceed if you dare]

Mechanical failures don't happen as much as pilot error?

Why would a Pilot do something stupid if it could result in a crash?

What is an example of someone doing something stupid that results in a crash? I want to know this so I can prevent myself from doing it!

Is flying in bad weather one of the things that fit in the "Doing something stupid" category?

[I warned you :)]
 
[Stupid rookie questions..proceed if you dare]



Why would a Pilot do something stupid if it could result in a crash?

Hahaha

Most crashes are a result of pilot error. Mostly this is due to a lack of proficiency due to lack of recurrent training, or improper pre-flight planning.

Lots of people run airplanes into bad weather, run them out of gas, or simply stall the airplane during takeoff-landing.



You don't need to worry about this as a student, you'll be practicing maneuvers and flying with an instructor frequently. What you should know is that after you earn you license, you can reduce your vulnerability to an accident by dilligently planning your flights, making conservative decisions in the air (hmm, weather is looking bad... should I stop now or keep going and see if it gets any worse?) and by practicing with an instructor once every couple of months instead of once every two years like most people.
 
Last edited:
Hahaha

Most crashes are a result of pilot error. Mostly this is due to a lack of proficiency due to lack of recurrent training, or improper pre-flight planning.

Lots of people run airplanes into bad weather, run them out of gas, or simply stall the airplane during takeoff-landing.



You don't need to worry about this as a student, you'll be practicing maneuvers and flying with an instructor frequently. What you should know is that after you earn you license, you can reduce your vulnerability to an accident by dilligently planning your flights, making conservative decisions in the air (hmm, weather is looking bad... should I stop now or keep going and see if it gets any worse?) and by practicing with an instructor once every couple of months instead of once every two years like most people.

Good point,

Hey, I rather say something stupid on the ground rather than do something stupid in the air.:)

Weather patterns change quite frequently especially in certain Mountain areas, (Here in Florida the only mountains here are landfills :) but thunder and lightning happen frequently in the summer) When weather patterns change and you are flying do you immediately land or go through it. I understand Ice and snow can affect your flying but what about thunder and lightning?
 
[Stupid rookie questions..proceed if you dare]

Mechanical failures don't happen as much as pilot error?

Why would a Pilot do something stupid if it could result in a crash?

What is an example of someone doing something stupid that results in a crash? I want to know this so I can prevent myself from doing it!

Is flying in bad weather one of the things that fit in the "Doing something stupid" category?

[I warned you :)]

Mechanical failures - yes they happen. But unless the pilot screws up, for the most part they should be somewhere between a non-event (land, fix, resume) and a significant inconvenience (get the airplane hauled out of a field somewhere). But, time after time, pilots manage to kill themselves by trying to "stretch" a glide (Hint, glides are not rubber bands, if you try to pull back more you just end up even shorter...) or even because of a distraction like an open door. :dunno:

Get-there-itis kills a lot of pilots who should have known better - flying into weather that is beyond their capabilities, continuing on in the face of a problem that would be best dealt with on the ground...

Buzzing or learn yourself aerobatics claims pilots on a regular basis.

Yes, flying into weather is a stupid mistake made over and over.

Look at the Nall report for lots of examples.

People have accidents all the time in cars - why? Mostly for doing something stupid, right? Airplanes are no different.

Close to (my) home examples of accidents / incidents:
A close relative on a student solo cross country asked to have the airplane topped off. It wasn't she didn't check. She ran out of gas. Put the airplane into a field (was flown out later0.

An airplane my old man used to own was totaled when the engine failed and it was put down on rail road tracks - the failure was attributed to use of auto gas in an airplane that didn't meet the criteria for using auto gas.

An airplane I did some recent training in was "substantially damaged" when a student pilot making a first solo panicked and decided to land in a plowed field instead of on the runway.

The old man forgot to put the gear down.

At a nearby airport, someone forgot to put the gear down, got low enough for the propeller to hit the runway and tried to go around - that failed and resulted in a smoking hole - all dead.
 
...
What is an example of someone doing something stupid that results in a crash? I want to know this so I can prevent myself from doing it!
...
I will bet you that most pilots make that same statement at some point. Human nature, however, causes many to do stupid things regardless. That's one of the reasons for recurrent training, so someone else can look at you (both your flying skills and your decision making) and help point out places where you are slipping. Consciously maintaining a safety-oriented attitude is one of the keys to survival. Are you going to make mistakes during your flying career? YES. Guaranteed. The goal is to recognize them before they cause damage and to learn from them, and to constantly watch for things that can lead you down the road to making them.
 
[Stupid rookie questions..proceed if you dare]

Mechanical failures don't happen as much as pilot error?

Pilot error far outpaces mechanical error. Think cars.

Do most cars crash because some system on the car failed or because the driver did something dumb? ;)

Why would a Pilot do something stupid if it could result in a crash?

Why do people crash cars? ;)

What is an example of someone doing something stupid that results in a crash? I want to know this so I can prevent myself from doing it!

One of the most common is simply to fail to maintain control of the aircraft on or near the ground.

Sounds stupid, but it kills people every year.

A really dumb example that has killed people before, and will again, is a door popping open on takeoff.

In most of the light aircraft we fly, this should be a non-event. The wind outside is a little noisy, the door will typically trail only an inch or so open, you and your passengers are literally strapped to the airframe, and maybe your loose paper charts blow off your lap if even that.

But if you allow yourself to start messing with it at low altitude, turning in your seat, fighting with the door and ignoring the fact that you still have an airplane to fly, because of the distraction, you and the aircraft and you might hit something solid while you're not paying attention.

Just one of many examples.

Best advice here is to read NTSB reports and Flying Magazine's "I Learned About Flying from That" articles.

Your instructor will also eventually simulate a whole bunch of things you need to be mentally prepared for, such as engine failures and will teach you how to handle those situations.

Is flying in bad weather one of the things that fit in the "Doing something stupid" category?

[I warned you :)]

Yes.
 
For any new pilot that is interested in significantly improving their odds, I would STRONGLY recommend a book entitled "The Killing Zone." Get a copy and read it! You won't be sorry.

Kim, Have you read your copy yet?:nono:

Bought one for Kindle. Great book. Too many stats in the beginning, but a great read. I am only few pages in, but it seems like "Do not fly into IMC, and you will be ok" type of thing.
 
A really dumb example that has killed people before, and will again, is a door popping open on takeoff.

In most of the light aircraft we fly, this should be a non-event. The wind outside is a little noisy, the door will typically trail only an inch or so open, you and your passengers are literally strapped to the airframe, and maybe your loose paper charts blow off your lap if even that.

But if you allow yourself to start messing with it at low altitude, turning in your seat, fighting with the door and ignoring the fact that you still have an airplane to fly, because of the distraction, you and the aircraft and you might hit something solid while you're not paying attention.

Had exactly that happen to me. It was on my 2nd solo flight too. And now every runup I do, I push on all doors to make sure it's properly latched.

Took off, still on runway heading, realized it's a little bit more noisy than usual in a C152. Saw the door is not latched and about 1 inch crack. First thing I did was to check my pant pocket, make sure my cell phone is still there... :dunno:

My first idea was to turn around immediately, and do a teardrop landing on opposite runway that I took off from, but thought about the wind, and decided to continue on in a pattern. Turned crosswind, and tried to slam the door shut. It was a challenge. Waited until I am at about 750' AGL, and shut the door.

Rest of the flight was uneventful. I actually have it on Youtube, since I decided to mount a camera inside the plane to analyze my flight when I am on the ground.
 
Originally Posted by denverpilot
A really dumb example that has killed people before, and will again, is a door popping open on takeoff.

In most of the light aircraft we fly, this should be a non-event. The wind outside is a little noisy, the door will typically trail only an inch or so open, you and your passengers are literally strapped to the airframe, and maybe your loose paper charts blow off your lap if even that.

But if you allow yourself to start messing with it at low altitude, turning in your seat, fighting with the door and ignoring the fact that you still have an airplane to fly, because of the distraction, you and the aircraft and you might hit something solid while you're not paying attention.
Had exactly that happen to me. It was on my 2nd solo flight too. And now every runup I do, I push on all doors to make sure it's properly latched.

Took off, still on runway heading, realized it's a little bit more noisy than usual in a C152. Saw the door is not latched and about 1 inch crack. First thing I did was to check my pant pocket, make sure my cell phone is still there... :dunno:

My first idea was to turn around immediately, and do a teardrop landing on opposite runway that I took off from, but thought about the wind, and decided to continue on in a pattern. Turned crosswind, and tried to slam the door shut. It was a challenge. Waited until I am at about 750' AGL, and shut the door.

Rest of the flight was uneventful. I actually have it on Youtube, since I decided to mount a camera inside the plane to analyze my flight when I am on the ground.

I actually had the door pop open on a 152 on my very first flight (discover flight) in '79. We were in the climb from the first takeoff. The instructor said it was no big deal, we'll land and close it. It was a non-event.
 
Just an update: I have decided to hold off for a while on taking lessons until after the month of February. Feb is going to be a busy month for me, and I thought that I might be more mentally prepared to start the lessons after receiving my tax refund and having a bit of cushion in my savings account. In the mean time I bought a Saitek flight yoke off craigslist and MS Flight Simulator, I have also been reading material from gold star...hopefully this will give me a slight head start on my training.
 
Next year, claim higher deductions and spend it before Uncle Sam collects interest on it. ;)
 
For any new pilot that is interested in significantly improving their odds, I would STRONGLY recommend a book entitled "The Killing Zone." Get a copy and read it! You won't be sorry.

I saw this book on my Color nook and I will purchase it once I finish Stick and Rudder and then Flight training. Thanks for the reccomendation it looks like a good read.

It's true as a rookie I will make mistakes but I would like to minimize them as much as possible. That will at least give me a better chance in the air if something "Outside of my control" happens to me.
 
Much as I hate to say it, the absolute best thing you can do is stay home, relax, and hit yourself in the head with a rock until you no longer want to fly airplanes. Your soon-to-be spouse will thank you. Your portfolio will thank you. Your head will thank you, despite it's recent beating with a rock.

Being hit in the head with a rock beats the heck out of the aviation bug, which is shear murder.
 
Much as I hate to say it, the absolute best thing you can do is stay home, relax, and hit yourself in the head with a rock until you no longer want to fly airplanes. Your soon-to-be spouse will thank you. Your portfolio will thank you. Your head will thank you, despite it's recent beating with a rock.

Being hit in the head with a rock beats the heck out of the aviation bug, which is shear murder.

In my opinion, I rather fly airplanes and at the end of my life look back at all of the things I did do. It's too painful for me to be at the end of my life and say: "Why didn't I"

[Worst case scenario] I die in an airplane accident after taking every precaution I could, I chased my dream and accomplished it, I went for it that is a lot better than living for a long time and not doing anything because of fear. One is a quick death and the other is a slow and painful death. Choose wisely! ;)
 
Much as I hate to say it, the absolute best thing you can do is stay home, relax, and hit yourself in the head with a rock until you no longer want to fly airplanes. Your soon-to-be spouse will thank you. Your portfolio will thank you. Your head will thank you, despite it's recent beating with a rock.

Being hit in the head with a rock beats the heck out of the aviation bug, which is shear murder.

:needpics:

LOL!
 
hit+by+a+rock.jpg


You did ask...
 
You can buy a 2 seat trainer or even a bottom of the market (yet airworthy) 4 seater for < $20k that if delivered with a fresh annual will have better than even odds of making it a year/150-200 hrs without incurring a significant maintenance or repair expense. You can find independent instructors for $20 hr or less.
 
You can buy a 2 seat trainer or even a bottom of the market (yet airworthy) 4 seater for < $20k that if delivered with a fresh annual will have better than even odds of making it a year/150-200 hrs without incurring a significant maintenance or repair expense. You can find independent instructors for $20 hr or less.

I happen to have such a 2-seat trainer available...
 
You're selling the Sooper Yankee! Say it ain't so! I was just kidding about the rock stuff, honest!

It's the smart way to do it. I got over 1100 hrs of ME time in mt Travelair at an end of life cost of $5hr due to some survey contracts that paid nicely.
 
I happen to have such a 2-seat trainer available...

How much? Lets say 18,000, Divided by 250 is $72hr, $30 hr on fuel, & $25 for instruction; you can throw away the plane at the end if the year with your tickets in hand and have broke even. Any value beyond that and you are ahead. If you blow an engine you can buy a running one installed for ~ $10k.
 
It's the smart way to do it. I got over 1100 hrs of ME time in mt Travelair at an end of life cost of $5hr due to some survey contracts that paid nicely.

This is part of what's holding me back. BS degree, 1050hrs of ASEL and only 50 AMEL that's not even all PIC.. Going for my MEI this spring though (If I don't owe Uncle Sam too much)

<---<^>--->
 
Back
Top